HL Deb 16 October 1985 vol 467 cc648-51

9A The Lord Cameron of Lochbroom to move, That this House do disagree with Commons Amendments Nos. 9 and 15 but propose the following amendments in lieu thereof:

9B Page 8, line 14, after ("a") where it second occurs insert ("liquid").

9C Page 8, line 15, after ("amounts") insert ("(or liquid debts with in aggregate amount)").

Lord Cameron of Lochbroom

My Lords, I beg to move my Motion No. 9A that the House do disagree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 9 and 15 but propose the Amendments 9B and 9C in lieu thereof. I would for the convenience of the House also speak to Amendments Nos. 10 to 14 at the same time.

So far as Amendment No. 9 is concerned, I suggest to your Lordships that it might be convenient to consider Amendment Nos. 10 to 15 because they all amend Clause 7(1)(d), which provides for the constitution of a debtor's apparent insolvency by the use of a three-week statutory demand. Amendments 9, 11, 12 and 15 make it clear that a number of debts amounting to the relevant amount (that is to say £750 or such sum as may be prescribed), as well as a single debt of not less than that amount, would entitle a creditor to use the Clause 7(1)(d) procedure.

Amendments 10 and 13 provide that the creditor's demand and any denial by the debtor must be sent by recorded delivery. Amendment No. 14 has the effect of providing that a debtor would require to deny that he owed the creditor a relevant amount, irrespective of the amount claimed by the creditor.

I am now proposing three changes to these amendments. Amendments Nos. 9A, 9B, and 9C, which are proposed in place of Amendments Nos. 9 and 15, have the effect of providing that a creditor will only be able to use the provision if the debts making up his £750 of debts are liquid debts. The exact meaning of the term "liquid debt" is a matter for the common law, but in essence it means a debt that is of a certain, settled amount which is either constituted in writing, by decree or probative document, or is admitted by the debtor. This will provide a considerable safeguard for the debtor and was suggested by the Scottish Consumer Council.

The Amendment 10A alters the method by which a demand under Clause 7(1) (d) will have to be served upon the debtor from one of service by recorded delivery to one of personal service by an officer of court. This is because further consideration of this amendment suggested that it might still be possible for a debtor to be constituted apparently insolvent in certain instances, even though he had not himself received the statutory demand (for example if the recorded delivery slip had been signed for by a neighbour on his, the debtor's behalf). In view of the drastic consequences which could follow upon a statutory demand, it is considered that it is important to ensure that the debtor personally receives it.

Amendment 14A virtually restores the position as it was in the Bill originally drafted and makes it clear that what the debtor has to deny is either that he owes the debt to the creditor or that the debt claimed is immediately payable. This simplifies the nature of the denial which requires to be given by the debtor. I beg to move.

Moved, That this House do disagree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 9 and 15 but do propose the Amendments Nos. 9B and 9C in lieu thereof.

On Question, Motion agreed to.