Unemployment and Assisted Areas (Hansard, 20 November 1985)

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, long-term unemployment was one of the criteria used by the Government when redrawing the Assisted Area Map during the review of, regional industrial policy which took place last year. I would refer the noble Lord to the recent Statement of my noble friend the Secretary of State for Employment which gave further recognition to the problems of the long-term unemployed.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, but is he not aware that by now the national average figure for long-term unemployment within the unemployment total is 41 per cent? The five areas referred to in my Question have of course suffered deprivation and shocking conditions for a much longer period of time than some other areas. When will the Government do something positive and meaningful? If they can be induced to do it, will they do it urgently because of the long-standing conditions in these five areas?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I remind the noble Lord again of the Statement made by my noble friend the Secretary of State for Employment on 12th November in which he outlined two initiatives which were about to take place. My noble friend will be announcing very shortly full details of the pilot scheme in assisted areas.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in the Tyne and Wear metropolitan county long-term unemployment as a percentage of total unemployment is now approaching 50 per cent? Does not the noble Lord really feel that, rather than the Prime Minister coming forward and calling us moaning minnies, as she did recently, such an appalling situation demands much more help from central Government in attracting new investment, 553 especially as we compare so unfavourably with the resources made available, and rightly made available, to Scotland through their development agency?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the noble Lord would not expect me to pick out one specific area. As the noble Lord mentioned in his original Question, a number of areas are suffering from excessively high unemployment. The Government have spent more than £1 billion in attracting new industry and other enterprises. The noble Lord will know that the change in the regional policy through both grant and selective assistance was designed to encourage jobs. Although that scheme has been operating for only a year there is already evidence that it is working and that jobs are being created, particularly, for example, in the West Midlands.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us whether all the five regions referred to in the Question may expect to benefit from the pilot schemes that are to be introduced shortly and are designed to help people who have been unemployed for a long time and have become demoralised because of their inability to find work?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, as I said originally, the pilot scheme areas will be announced by my noble friend quite shortly, although it is true that these will include assisted areas and areas outside so that a comparative figure may be allowed. There are of course other initiatives already taking place with a view to alleviating the problem.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the revised plans for regional assistance, made, as he said, a year ago, in themselves represent a cut in regional assistance? Is there not a case at least for restoring the level of regional assistance, even within the new criteria, to the annual figure at which it was running previously? Will the noble Lord bear in mind that if it was possible to bail out Johnson Matthey, to use the term of the noble Lord, to the tune of £100 million, the great bulk of the British people would believe that £100 million to have been better expended on regional assistance?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, at the end of the day more than £400 million will be spent in regional assistance. We believe that, although there has been a cut, that money can be very much more effectively used as it is directed towards job creation rather than capital investment. One should bear in mind a significant series of figures, one of which is the fact that in the United Kingdom 65 per cent. of the working population are in work. That figure is some 7 percentage points higher than the average across OECD countries.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, with regard to the noble Lord's reference to pilot schemes, he will no doubt be aware that I asked a question on this subject during the debate on the loyal Address which for some reason or other the Leader of the House inadvertently forgot to answer. Can the noble Lord now tell me whether the Government are satisfied that these schemes are wholly within our responsibilities and legal liabilities 554 to the rest of our partners as members of the European Community?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, no; I am afraid I cannot add anything to answer the question of the noble Lord, Lord Diamond, other than to repeat that my noble friend the Secretary of State for Employment will be announcing quite shortly full details of the pilot scheme arrangement. I will ensure that his attention is drawn to that question so that he may take care of it in the presentation of that detail.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, to what extent is the financial assistance directed to setting up new industries in these distressed areas?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the grant money in the assisted areas is devoted to any new industry or any existing industry that creates new jobs rather than transfers jobs from another area. In addition, selective assistance is available under certain criteria for both new industry and existing industry development, again with the accent being upon the creation of new or the perpetuation of existing jobs.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, are not the Government and the Minister being completely complacent in this matter? Is it not a fact that their so-called regional policy helps absolutely nobody? It does not help those in the North, where unemployment is high. Neither does it help those in the South, where infrastructure arrangements are breaking down and housing costs are going through the roof. Would it not be as well if the Government had a regional plan and devoted sufficient resources to creating real jobs where those jobs are needed?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
Oh dear! My Lords, I am so sorry for the noble Lord.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
The Minister need not feel sorry for me, my Lords.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I am sorry that he should make such a series of wild allegations.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
They are absolutely true, my Lords.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, let me give the noble Lord an example of where the Government's regional policy has worked extremely well. The West Midlands became an intermediate area last November. More than £22 million of grant and more than £150 million of total investment has been put into that area since that time, and 13,500 jobs have been created or safeguarded. Our policies do work, and I refute the allegation which the noble Lord makes.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, I listened carefully to the noble Lord's reply to my first question. In spite of his tantrum when replying to my noble friend, will he tell the House specifically what the Government intend to do to halt the rise in long-term unemployment in Tyne and Wear, because it has risen every year since the Government came to office?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the Government's economic and employment policies—most particularly those which have resulted in improved productivity, competitiveness and investment in British industry—are all designed to have the result of improving our general commercial position, and they have achieved that. It is as a result of those policies that further long-term jobs will be created and maintained.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
What about Tyne and Wear, my Lords?

§ Lord Denham
My Lords, the House may feel that, as we have a long list of speakers for today's debate and as we have spent 32 minutes on Question Time already, now is probably the moment to move on to other business.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I will ask a final question.

§ Lord Denham
My Lords, I hope that the noble Lord will listen to what I am saying. Thirty minutes is considered very long for Question Time, and we have spent longer than that on it already. We have a long list of speakers for this afternoon.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I shall be as brief as I possibly can. Is the Minister not aware that despite the numbers he gave of people in employment, those figures mean nothing at all to the long-term unemployed in the five areas I mentioned? I reiterate the question asked by my noble friend Lord Glenamara: what are the Secretary of State's proposals and, because of the urgency, when will they be implemented?

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
Answer!

§ Lord Denham
My Lords, I made a request that is usually accepted in this House—that Question Time should come to an end. I am sorry that the noble Lord should have gone on questioning. I hope that we may now go on to the next business.