Employment of Graduates (Hansard, 19 November 1985)

§ Lord Sandys
My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Orr-Ewing, and with his consent, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, in 1984 there were 97,900 graduates from full-time and sandwich first degree courses in universities and polytechnics. That is 18 per cent. more than in 1979. Of the 1984 graduates, 10 per cent. were unemployed six months later, which is the lowest proportion since 1980. The Green Paper published last May emphasised the need for higher education to take greater account of the needs of industry and commerce. The Government will continue to pursue policies to that end.

§ Lord Sandys
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Can he tell the House whether a larger proportion of graduates are now going into industry than hitherto?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, in 1984 there were nearly 7,000 more graduates in science and engineering than in 1979—an increase of about a quarter. However, industry has indicated that it still needs more, particularly in electronic engineering and computing.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, while I welcome the Minister's statement of a decrease in graduate unemployment, may I ask him whether he would accept that there are two possible explanations of that, one that there are genuinely more jobs for graduates and the other that there have been excessive cuts in the provision of university education?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, perhaps I may begin by welcoming the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh of Haringey, as the Opposition spokesman on education and science in this House, and wish him all the luck. There has not been a cut in higher education, as the noble Lord suggests. In fact, since 1979 the number of home students has increased by more than 65,000. The proportion of 18- to 19-year-olds entering higher education has increased by a tenth, and the number of mature entrants has increased by a sixth. Our plans envisage further increases in opportunities to enter higher education over the next decade.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that while the cut has not occurred in these technological faculties it has occurred in the arts faculties which usually accompany the technological faculties, and that it is impossible to have a good university with a balanced education unless one has both? Will my noble friend be good enough to look at that particular aspect?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I do not often disagree with my noble friend Lord Nugent, but on this point I think I must because at present 47 per cent. of university students and 60 per cent. of those in the public sector are not on science-related courses, so I think that there is scope for change. But my noble friend is quite right in saying that arts and humanities courses are also important. As my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has made clear, rigorously taught, such courses develop analytical and critical skills of broad vocational relevance and help transmit and enrich our cultural heritage.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, with regard to the shortage of graduates in computing, is the noble Earl aware that most of the demands are from people with several years' relevant experience and there is still a need to encourage employers to take people straight out of the universities, as do some sectors such as the banks and local authorities, and give them the necessary background; and the more the Government can do to encourage the rest of industry to follow the example of these more enlightened employers. the sooner we shall reach the end of the shortage of qualified manpower?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I think that in answering the last supplementary question I said that I did not very often disagree with my noble friend. I do not very often agree with the noble Lord opposite but I do so on this occasion.

§ Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, does my noble friend have the figures of the proportion of graduates in employment who have gone into manufacturing industry?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I think that my noble friend will have to wait because detailed statistics on graduates' subjects of study and on their employment destination are going to be published, together with other related figures, in a Department of Education and Science statistical bulletin in late December or early January. If my noble friend will wait patiently until then, he will get all the figures.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, now that the number of graduates has gone up, when are the Government proposing to increase the resources to back the numbers—particularly in those technological universities such as Salford and Ashton which have suffered severe cuts?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, our expenditure plans envisage small cash increases in grants to universities in the next few years. The effect in real terms will depend upon the rate of inflation, but a reasonable expectation might be that universities will need to make savings of just over 1 per cent. in each of the next two years and of rather less in 1988–89. We believe that these savings can be achieved through increases in efficiency so as to offer the taxpayer even better value for money.

§ Baroness White
My Lords, can the noble Earl explain how that squares with the advice the universities have received from the University Grants Committee that they must face cuts of 2 per cent. per annum for an indefinite period?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I think we are getting rather wide of the Question, which is about the employment of graduates.

§ Baroness White
My Lords, since it is very much at the root of the questions to which the noble Earl has been good enough to give some replies, I think he should reply to that one, too.

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I gave my answer and I stand by it.