HL Deb 14 November 1985 vol 468 cc385-7

3.18 p.m.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have any proposals to deal with the allegations made in the BBC "Panorama" programme of Monday 4th November regarding the activities of various people associated with the financial institutions of the United Kingdom.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the programme failed to state that action had already been taken by the Government in some of the cases mentioned. In others it is under consideration. As far as changes in the law and the regulation of financial institutions are concerned, the Government have published a White Paper and will be introducing legislation during the present Session.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. However, is not the Minister aware that the programme showed quite clearly that the self-regulation system as applied at present is quite inefficient to deal with the present situation, and that there is a large number of people who are misappropriating huge sums of money and getting away scot-free? Will the noble Lord agree that any legislation which is brought forward should contain provisions which will ensure that these people will be dealt with most severely by the normal processes of law and will not be treated as a special class of people?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, obviously I would ask the noble Lord to await the arrival of the legislation. However, I would not agree with him that self-regulation is an unsatisfactory procedure. Perhaps I may inform the noble Lord that in certain of the cases mentioned in the television programme action has been taken. The Secretary of State was instrumental in the compulsory winding-up of one of the companies involved, and three of the leading characters have been extradited to Germany and face charges. In a number of other cases action is also being taken.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that if we attempted to deal with every allegation made by the media there would be no time left for Parliament to do its proper business?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, my noble friend is quite correct.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that owing to the freedom of the press that we enjoy in this country, sometimes very serious allegations are made by what one would term as the quality newspapers with a very high reputation? Even though the noble Lord may think it unwise to act on every allegation, is he aware that there have been a number of very serious allegations, well-documented and not made without the protection of parliamentary privilege, which^cast doubts at the present time as to whether the self-regulatory machinery will be adequate to deal with them?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the noble Lord has not given a specific example, so it is difficult for me to comment on the case that he might have in mind. However, if he is referring to JMB, then of course he will be aware that the police are inquiring into the matters there.

Viscount Bridgeman

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that the council of the Stock Exchange now employs 27 full-time inspectors, who regularly visit all member firms and who have unrestricted access to their books and records? Is he further aware that since 1982, the Stock Exchange has investigated six serious cases of the misuse of suspense accounts, as a result of which six of its members have been expelled, eight suspended and seven censured, and that the findings of all these cases have been made public?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend, although I am not surprised that the Stock Exchange should take these matters seriously. I think this proves that self-regulation works extremely well. On the question of suspense accounts, I should remind my noble friend that the Licensed Dealers (Conduct of Business) Rules 1983, which came into force after the events described in this particular programme, require transactions to be booked to a named client on the day they are made.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, is the noble Lord prepared for his department to impress upon the police authorities that the public is very concerned at a number of huge fraud cases—not least that of Lloyds which was recently reported—which appear to be taking place without any prosecution?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the department is naturally concerned about that, and in certain Lloyds cases, police and departmental inquiries are still continuing and I cannot make any further comment on them at the moment.

Lord Orr-Ewing

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, whereas the BBC has sometimes found it very difficult in its programmes to abide by the charter and produce factually balanced programmes, over the past 30 years no programme has found it more consistently difficult to give a balanced presentation than has "Panorama"?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I think I should be unwise to comment too strongly on my noble friend's opinion of the programme "Panorama" in general terms. However, I think it is unfortunate that in this particular case they did not tell the whole story.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, is the Minister not aware that despite the cases quoted by the noble Lord opposite, where some of the financial agencies and institutions have dealt with people, that it comes across to laymen as rather peculiar that people who are deliberately breaking the law, and obtaining huge sums of money thereby, are being dealt with on the basis of membership of a club and,not by the law agencies? To lay people in this country that is very difficult to understand when we have the present Government taking a stand on the policy of law and order. There are two sets of conditions being applied.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, that is just simply not true. If an individual breaks the rules of the organisation of which he is a member, obviously he will be dealt with by the organisation. If he breaks the criminal law, the full force of the law will come down upon him.

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