HL Deb 16 May 1985 vol 463 cc1247-9
Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government which consumer affairs items were included on the agenda for discussion at the Internal Market—Consumer Affairs Council meeting held on 6th and 7th May, and of these which resulted in agreement and which were deferred to the next meeting; and whether quarterly meetings of the EC consumer affairs ministers are now to be resumed.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Lucas of Chilworth)

My Lords, in the event, the council meeting held on 7th May dealt solely with the internal market. A separate Council of Ministers on consumer affairs is scheduled for 21st May. Meetings of the council specifically devoted to consumer affairs were never intended to be held at quarterly intervals. The three-month intervals between the meetings in December 1983 and March and June 1984 were purely coincidental.

The Government share the view of many member states that consumer affairs councils should only be held to deal with those subjects which are not more appropriate for discussions at other councils. The decision whether to hold any particular council rests with the current presidency.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, while I realise that it is not the Minister's fault, I should like to ask him whether he appreciates that it seems almost impossible to obtain a clear picture of what, if anything, is happening in this area of consumer affairs. Looking at the four points mentioned in the Question today, in spite of the detail that the noble Lord has given does he accept that a satisfactory answer has not been given to any one of these? Finally, may I ask him, on the point that I think he made that ministers of consumer affairs would meet as and when it was considered necessary, is it not true that some eight or nine items are awaiting decision and that some have been waiting for years? Would this not seem a good time to deal with them?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I really am sorry that the noble Baroness finds it impossible to obtain a clear picture. I have tried to paint it as clearly as possible. There is a satisfactory outcome in prospect in that, as I understand it, two of the items which have been on the agenda for some little time are again to come up on 21st May. I have to say to your Lordships that it is not true that there are eight or nine items outstanding, because a number of them have been set aside, as it were, on the way.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, while he has tried to paint a picture, it is a picture of non-progress? That is the point I am trying to make. Does he feel that on the Question set down for 6th June he will be able to give the House the information for which I asked?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, certainly the directive on misleading advertising was adopted in September last year. That is at least one of a number of items that have been successfully brought to fruition.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, does the noble Lord the Minister realise that these delays are so frustrating for those organisations, of which we have many in this country, connected with consumer affairs, and that this is one of the difficulties which I know the EC has? Can the Minister press it further so that we really can get some replies which would encourage our own people, as well as everybody else?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I understand what my noble friend says in regard to frustration; but one must realise that we are in a Community and that we have to carry our partners—and I am sure our partners sometimes say that of us. When you have as large a number of people, each with various and different domestic issues to be considered at the same time as Community issues, it is not always the easiest task to reach amicable conclusions in the short time that I fear some noble Lords might wish.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his notification that certain items will be on the next agenda of the Council of Ministers concerned with consumer affairs is not really very encouraging? Is the noble Lord also aware that in another field the freedom to establish insurance services, other than life assurance, in various parts of the Community has been on the agenda for the last 10 years without any successful resolution, and indeed has been on the agenda during successive British holders of the presidency?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I am not quite sure what question the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, was addressing to me. On his latter point, I think that it is a little wide. On his former point, he will appreciate, with his past connections in Europe, that it is of course for the presidency of the day to determine exactly what the agenda should be when the Council of Ministers meets.

Lord Diamond

My Lords, if the procedure which the noble Lord the Minister recommends is acceded to, is there not a danger that consumer affairs will tend to be overlooked? Is there not advantage in having consumer affairs dealt with every three months as a matter of routine to pick up matters which would not otherwise be dealt with? Finally, are not all of us in this House grateful to my noble friend who keeps such a vigilant eye on these matters?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I advocate no particular procedure. I outline the facts as they are. Her Majesty's Government are not happy at the idea that consumer councils, or any other council of a particular nomenclature, should automatically have a place. We believe that when consumer matters come to a relevant point that needs discussion, a meeting should be held. That, again, as I said, is up to the presidency. I have indicated that there is to be a meeting on 21st May at which some consumer affairs matters will be discussed. How far down the agenda the meeting gets I should not like to say.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, the noble Lord has mentioned the directive on misleading information which has at last come into force. Is he aware that I was the rapporteur for that directive in the European Parliament in 1978, and is seven years about par for the course? If so, is it, in the Government's opinion, good enough?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

Indeed, my Lords, I was aware of the interest of the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, in this matter. I wonder whether, had the rapporteur set out the case more quickly, we might have arrived at a decision more quickly.

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