HL Deb 21 March 1985 vol 461 cc641-2
Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the answer given on 31st October 1984 (H.L. Deb. col. 515), they are able to give further details of the progress made on the review by the European Air Navigation Planning Group of the air route structure.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, on 5th December 1984, the ICAO Council approved the improvements in route alignment submitted by the European Air Navigation Planning Group. However, the group's submission included some cases on which it had not been able to reach full agreement on the proposed alignments of specific routes. In those cases the existing alignments have been retained and ICAO will hold further consultations about them.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, while I am glad that the International Civil Aviation Organisation has approved those routes, and while I thank the Minister for the amount of detail in his Answer, I should like to ask him whether he can tell us how many of the routes were not approved by the European Air Navigation Group itself for submission to ICAO. Secondly, can he give us any estimate of the cost saving in this exercise?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the routes which have understandably given some difficulty are those between Turkey and Greece, and also I think some routes inside the USSR, about which, surprisingly—or not surprisingly, perhaps—we do not have very much information. As for the savings in costs, this is a matter for the airlines to pronounce upon, but, generally speaking, something of the order of five dollars an aircraft mile is the sort of saving that could be envisaged.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, does the Minister feel that it can now be left to IATA to monitor progress and try to hurry up those dilatory countries, and does he feel that it is not necessary to bother him with any more Questions on this matter?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, my heart and my head go in opposite ways in this matter, but I have no doubt the noble Baroness will find an opportunity to question me if she sees any dilatoriness among the nations concerned. She will not want to underestimate the difficulties, for example, of resolving the differences between Greece and Turkey, which of course are of long standing and have defied resolution for a good many years; nor will she underestimate the difficulty of securing more information on these matters from the Soviet Union.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, may I ask one further brief question, for elucidation. Am I right in assuming that none of the routes which have not yet been approved were included in the original group submitted by IATA, which had indeed caused it the most concern?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I believe that is correct. There were some alterations during the course of the consideration of this matter. IATA, being the body most seriously involving the airlines, is not slow to bring forward its views; and quite right, too.

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