HL Deb 18 March 1985 vol 461 cc345-55

4.4 p.m.

Lord Dunleath

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.

While not wishing to detain your Lordships, I feel it would be only courteous for me to try and give a few words of explanation of what lies behind this apparently brief and bland Bill. I am grateful, I may say, to Her Majesty's Government for having afforded the opportunity to propose that this Bill be read a second time at such an early date.

The background to it is that over the last 16 years we in Northern Ireland have been living through what might be described as a dark age; and those of us who live in the Province and have a stake in it have been doing our best to try to make good things happen. Unfortunately, so many bad things have happened and unfortunately, also, bad news inevitably gets more publicity than good news. Therefore, I hope I may be forgiven for spending a couple of moments in outlining some of the more constructive, desirable and civilised things that have been happening in Northern Ireland and of which we who live there have perhaps some reason to be proud.

Having said that, I must say that during this period of "dark age" we have been deeply grateful for the moral, material and indeed sacrificial support that we have received from those of your Lordships and the rest of the community living in Great Britain—and when I say "sacrificial support" I would add that we mourn every bit as much the death of any soldier who comes from England, Scotland or Wales as we do the death of any member of the Northern Ireland security forces, whether they be members of the police or of the Ulster Defence Regiment, because the British Army is our army and we mourn the casualties there as much as we do those among our own kinsmen. We are grateful for the support that we have received—and the financial support has been very considerable. But we do not want to be beggers. We want to be able to stand on our own feet, and those of us who live in Northern Ireland have endeavoured to try to encourage constructive activity, to encourage civilisation and to encourage movement towards better things.

As I say, good news does not always receive as much publicity as bad news, and that is inevitable. I would quote one or two good things that have happened. Well before the troubles started, a distant relation of mine, who is my guest here today, started an organisation called the Ulster Enterprise Voluntary Committee. She roped in, apart from myself, a couple of other prominent people in Northern Ireland, and we tried to promote good ideas and good initiatives from people in Northern Ireland. We had limited success, but the important thing is that the germ of that idea was developed and, I think, has now blossomed in the Local Enterprise Development Unit. That is notable for its success in promoting small industries and good ideas with initiative as their background in Northern Ireland. To someone like my relation, to whom I have already referred, I think a great deal is owed for the initiative that was undertaken some 20 or 25 years ago.

In addition to that, other civilised things have taken place in Northern Ireland. On the cultural level, we have seen the magnificent early Victorian palmhouse in the botanic gardens being restored. We have seen the opera house being restored. Also, St. Anne's Cathedral in Belfast, through a great act of faith on the part of the dean, the very reverend Samuel Crooks, has been completed, and this in a most unpropitious period. And dear to my heart is the fact that William Hill's grand organ in the Ulster Hall, dating from 1861, has been fully restored and is now once again firing on all cylinders. Coupled to that, I might mention that only yesterday afternoon, instead of going to Down Cathedral at Downpatrick to shout insults at Cardinal O'Fiaich, I went to the depot of the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland and placed my hand on the regulator of locomotive No. 85, which was one of our first high-speed express passenger locomotives dating from 1932, and having been out of service since 1962 she is now in steam once again and going. This, to me, was a particularly gratifying moment.

But having run over one or two of the gratifying things that have happened in recent years, I would look back to the 1920s and recall that our predecessors, like Lord Craigavon, also realised that it was important to try to present a favourable image of the Province, because after all in the early 1920s the future of Northern Ireland was far from secure. They took a number of steps and invested a considerable amount of time, effort and money in trying to set up the Province as a viable unit.

One of the things they did was to attract the Tourist Trophy race to Northern Ireland. It had previously been held in the Isle of Man, but the circuit had proved to be such that the race was unable to continue thereon. Lord Craigavon with his colleagues, Lord Londonderry, the inventive and famous Harry Ferguson and others, identified a racing circuit in the Ards area which eventually was considered to be the best racing circuit in Europe until the Mirburgring was established. Of the two European races, it was equal with Le Mans in public esteem and prestige, but of the two Ards was the more testing and demanding circuit on both motor-cars and drivers. It was supremely successful, attracting up to half-a-million spectators for each event. The ships from Liverpool, Glasgow and Heysham shuttled backwards and forwards bringing spectators, drivers, crews and journalists to Northern Ireland and this was the biggest sporting event ever to have been held at any time in the British Isles.

There is a great deal of nostalgia for the Ards TT Race. There are still many people who remember it and the younger generation, who have heard about it, ask their elders eagerly what it was like. Such is the nostalgia that in 1978 we—and when I say "we" I mean members of the Ulster Vintage Car Club—decided to commemorate the golden jubilee of the first Ards TT race by having a commemorative run. We tried to get a road closure order in the interests of public safety, but unfortunately the 1977 Road Races (Northern Ireland) Order precluded any additional road closures. None the less, I must say that the Minister, the department and indeed the police were sympathetic and we had a most successful event.

Unfortunately, however, despite repeated appeals, the general public did not accede to our request to keep off the circuit and, while three demonstration runs were conducted by authentic TT cars of the period, the public wanted to join in with their modern cars. Such was the atmosphere of the occasion and the enthusiasm that was generated. But, quite honestly, what with children, dogs and people on bicycles, I was scared that an accident might have occurred. But the police were superb on that occasion, with the result that it was a great success and, by the grace of the Lord, there was no untoward incident.

Since then, there have been many calls from the general public, from enthusiasts both in Northern Ireland and overseas, to repeat such an occasion. Indeed, one came from a recently retired divisional commander of the RUC who asked, "Could you do this again?" But, as president of the Ulster Vintage Car Club, I must say that I myself would not be prepared to lend support to a repeat performance unless the roads could be closed in the interests of public safety. Therefore, what I am suggesting now is that if this amendment Bill should go through it would be entirely at the Minister's discretion whether or not to grant a further road closure order, which would enable us to have a 50th anniversary golden jubilee race of three or four laps on the Ards circuit next year as a commemoration.

In saying that, I would point out to your Lordships who may not be familiar with the motor racing situation—though I know that many are—that vintage racing is not only much safer but also more spectacular than modern racing, because speeds are that much lower and using authentic vintage tyres you can drive sideways very much more safely with complete impunity, and indeed with pleasure, whereas modern cars hang on for very much longer and then, when they do break away, it is very much more difficult to "catch" them. So what we are envisaging is that we should have a race next year of three or four laps, which will be confined to authentic touring cars of between the dates of 1928 and 1936. There will be no racers and no specials but, as it was at the time, cars which any member of the public could buy out of a showroom and which were on general sale.

The safety factor of vintage racing is such that I can envisage no risk of any repeat of the most regrettable accident that occurred after the war on the Dundrod circuit when speeds had risen to a considerable extent and when TT cars were no longer ordinary touring cars on sale to the public but had developed into sports racing cars. On that occasion, unfortunately, a vehicle spun and stalled halfway across the road and the other competitors were unable to pull up without running into it.

I can envisage no problem of that sort, nor indeed can I envisage any risk of the sort of accident which occurred in 1936, when a Riley broke a shock absorber, developed front wheel tramp, got out of control and drove into the crowd who were standing on the pavement at the side of the road in Newtonards. That would never occur now. Our attitude towards spectator safety has completely changed since the 1930s, and in no circumstances would spectators be allowed to stand on the pavement with cars racing past them and with nothing between the spectators and the competitors but a road. That would not occur and that would not be a problem because the topography of the Ards circuit is such that in many sections the land rises gradually from around the circuit, thus providing a natural amphitheatre. So there would be no difficulty of that kind.

Finally, I would say that this proposal has received the unanimous approval of the Northern Ireland Assembly and of both the councils involved, Ards Borough Council and Castlereagh Borough Council. This is purely an enabling Bill to give the Minister the discretion to allow an additional road racing order should he think fit. Of course, the Minister would take into account the views of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, of the Royal Automobile Club, of the Ulster Association of Car Clubs, and of all interested parties, before deciding whether or not to grant such a road closure. But what I am asking your Lordships to do this afternoon is to give a Second Reading to this purely enabling measure so that if, in his wisdom, the Minister decides to agree to an additional road closure, it would give us in Northern Ireland what we want—a chance to help ourselves.

We do not want to be beggars. We want to be able to establish our own status and reputation as a place where people are welcome to come and, as so many have said, where they are glad to come. We are convinced that this will attract a tremendous number of tourists—not thousands but hundreds of thousands—and world-wide the press coverage would, I am convinced, be entirely favourable. Having said that, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read a second time.—(Lord Dunleath.)

4.22 p.m.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, we have been told that this is a Bill to amend one of the 10 articles of the Road Races (Northern Ireland) Order 1977. It is a modest Bill. It is not a supercharged Bill but it may be better for not belonging to that category. It often seems to me that in the midst of the draconian and alien emergency legislation and the lawlessness of the past 15 years or so, the Road Races (Northern Ireland) Order 1977 is an attractive piece of legislation.

The order deals with road races on public highways by four-wheeled motor-cars, by motorcycles and by pedal cycles and with hill-climbing competitions within a defined area. Notwithstanding the militancy and the tension, I have a feeling which is reinforced by the words of the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, that in its own modest way the Road Races Order, together with other achievements, has helped to make Northern Ireland a more civilized Province to live in. Indeed, in the words of the noble Lord, "It has helped to make good things happen".

It has been the practice since at least 1977 for the department to make up to 10 orders in a calendar year declaring that any roads specified in the order may be used for motor races during the days specified in the order. The year 1977 is not a long time ago; and this evening the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, invites the House to agree that the number of such orders should be increased from 10 to 11. That is not a radical change. We have listened to a constructive speech in support of the proposed amendment.

The noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, has painted a picture of the benefits which will ensue if the Bill is passed. But the greatest benefit of all is that it would, albeit in a small way, contribute to or promote normality in the Province; and on that count, even if there was no other supporting factor, I believe that the Bill would deserve the support of the House. The noble Lord has referred to other benefits. It will help in particular with the development of tourism.

So far as I know, this Bill has not generated controversy. Indeed, this is reinforced by what the noble Lord has told the House this evening. The English football team Tottenham Hotspur, and athletic teams have had to pull out of Northern Ireland engagements, which is sad and disappointing, but so far as I know there is no evidence that motor racing is a cause of division. Indeed, we may find that a new Ulster TT will attract the crowds and the tourists by their thousands.

I therefore welcome the Bill introduced by the noble Lord. It has a good deal going for it. I do not know whether the exercise of the power given by the Bill would cause difficulties for the police or for the communities that would be affected, but I am sure that the Minister would consult widely before deciding whether or not to exercise the road closure power which the Bill gives him. I am sure that all objections would be assessed and taken into account. I am sure that we on these Benches agree that the Minister ought to be given this power.

Lord Hampton

My Lords, perhaps I may come in just briefly. I speak for myself and not for my party. I was not able to get hold of the order which we are amending but I have listened with interest to the first two speakers and, as an amending Bill, I would support the Bill wholeheartedly.

4.27 p.m.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Lord Lyell)

My Lords, first of all, I am sure that all of your Lordships would wish to join me in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, upon his admirable presentation of the little Bill that is before us this afternoon. I hesitate to say "little Bill" but it is commendably short compared with much of the legislation to which the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, referred, and which the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, knows occupies so much of your Lordships' time at odd hours of the day and night, matters such as the appropriation orders with which we dealt last week.

I think that your Lordships are also very grateful for the way in which the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, set out his proposals in the context of Northern Ireland. I have to say on a personal note that the Lord, Lord Dunleath, does much to enrich the life of Northern Ireland both at his home and with his tremendous collection of motor-cars. Indeed, it was only last autumn that I must have passed upwards of 200 cars proceeding through the southern suburbs of Belfast to, I think, a gathering at the home of the noble Lord.

We are full of admiration for the noble Lord because of the manner in which he has developed this proposal for the commemoration of the fiftieth anniversary of the running of the last motor race in the series of the Ards Tourist Trophy events in Northern Ireland. The noble Lord also mentioned the last race on the Dundrod circuit. I recall that race in 1955 and, as the noble Lord pointed out, the motor-cars racing just thirty years ago were far different from what one could actually buy in the showrooms, and were far removed from the normal type of vehicle that most of us would drive about the countryside.

Some months ago the noble Lord mentioned to me the possibility of just such a commemorative event, taking the form of a racing competition or event of that type, by motor-cars of the period to which he has referred over the roads of the old Ards TT circuit. Your Lordships may not know that it is just to the east of Belfast.

I did, indeed, attend the debate—I think that is the right word to describe it—in the Northern Ireland Assembly at which the noble Lord proposed this event. It gave rise to much comment, all of it favourable to the noble Lord. The event he has outlined to your Lordships this afternoon would require the roads in question comprising the old Ards TT circuit to be closed to all normal traffic.

I am sure that your Lordships were impressed by the intent of the noble Lord's proposal and by his very graphic presentation of his proposal. Indeed, I have much sympathy with what he seeks to achieve. The prospect of the classic marques of sporting motorcars, of, I believe it was, 1931 to 1936 and onwards, competing in their full racing trim is a most attractive one. It would doubtless appeal to people of all ages in Northern Ireland. It is a fact that the legend of the Ards TT races and of the feats of the racing heroes of those days are still a part of Ulster folklore. The event proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, would no doubt strike an evocative chord in the hearts of many senior and more youthful citizens in the Province.

I am equally persuaded that, as the noble Lord has himself suggested, such an event would attract many visitors to Northern Ireland, but I ask your Lordships to consider just some of the factors which have to be considered by the Government and by those of us responsible for the running of sporting motor events of the kind we are allowed to run, and indeed do run, in Northern Ireland.

All all times the Government have to consider the convenience, welfare and safety of all kinds of road users. Above all, they have to consider those people who live along the roads which would have to be closed, not forgetting the many people who live in residential districts who would be effectively isolated were the roads comprising the Ards TT circuit to be closed. These are very difficult and intricate considerations. Indeed, they are taken fully into account in all cases of applications for the closure of roads for motor racing under the existing governing legislation.

In mentioning motor racing I hope that I can clear up one misapprehension which arose in the mind of the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies. The 10 occasions on which the roads may be closed for racing in Northern Ireland relate to races for motor cycles and motor cars as we know them. I believe that the noble Lord mentioned cycle racing. That comes under separate legislation. In the case of all 10 events covered under the 1977 order, they are for road racing motor cycles of up to 750cc—motor cycles and superbikes. I am sure that the events covered by motor cars are in the line of rallies. As far as I am aware, there is only one motor racing circuit in Northern Ireland, and that is at Kirkestown. There may still be a circuit for hill climbing; I am not quite sure. In any case, the 10 events I have mentioned are covered by motor vehicles, be they motor cycles or motor cars.

It is basic to an understanding of the noble Lord's proposal to appreciate that the area served by the roads which would have to be closed to normal traffic have changed enormously since the 1930s. From my own point of view, I remember going to Newtonards in the 1960s and the changes even since then have been colossal. Indeed, the changes are all the more marked when one considers that the roads were last used for the purposes of motor racing nearly 50 years ago.

In those days the area was largely rural in nature and was relatively lightly populated. But now the old Ards TT circuit is encompassed to a large extent by the Greater Belfast region. As the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, will be aware, much of the circuit is heavily populated. It is urbanised and has large industrial and commercial enterprises abutting the circuit. The circuit also contains—if I may put it that way—two major hospitals, both serving wide areas and having great importance in the whole area of Northern Ireland.

I shall give your Lordships a brief illustration of what would be involved and the number of persons who might be affected by closure of the roads. The circuit would commence at a point approximately one quarter of a mile from my office in Belfast, in the village of Dundonald. We first come to the Ulster Hospital, which is the first turning on the left on the old circuit. The front entrance would have to be closed and access for ambulances and any people who might require treatment would have to be by the rather twisty and narrow roads, of which I have experience myself, to the rear of the Ulster Hospital.

In the village of Dundonald one then comes to the Wellworths shopping centre, which is of no mean size. This would be effectively isolated during the period of the road closures. In fact, Dundonald is considerably larger than a village. To help matters—or perhaps not—the Royal Ulster Constabulary station abuts directly on to the route, which would effectively restrict the RUC in any operations they may wish to carry out.

Leaving Dundonald, one comes to some 1,500 houses in the Ballybeen Estate which would be entirely enclosed by the roads which would have to be closed. Leaving Dundonald behind, the route turns left, as one leaves Belfast and Dundonald, and then reaches Quarry Corner, and runs down Bradshaws Brae, which I am advised is relatively trouble-free, provided one's brakes hold and one does not suffer the kind of mechanical misfortune with which the noble Lord regaled the Northern Ireland Assembly; I shall not do so this afternoon.

One then arrives at Newtonards. The first obstacle there is the Woolco shopping centre. This was inside the old cirucuit and would fall inside the new circuit. Any noble Lord who has been in Newtonards at a weekend will appreciate just how busy is this main shopping centre, which draws shoppers from the whole of the Ards peninsula and area, and from most of the east of Belfast. Similarly, the Ards Hospital would fall inside the circuit.

The noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, will know also that there is a Saturday market in the town square. That would have to be cancelled, though that might perhaps be one of the easiest things to do—or it might not be. Once again, the RUC station there would be effectively restricted and closed down. It would fall inside the circuit, and I understand that most of the access roads to it would be affected by road closures.

Leaving Newtonards, we find two large housing estates of approximately 1,600 houses. These are the Scrabo and the Westwinds housing estates, which would be effectively cut off. The road then proceeds, leaving Strangford Lough on one's left, into the town of Comber. Here there are two estates, the Copeland and Enler estates, of some 800 houses which would also be severely restricted in terms of access during the period of the road closures.

The route from Comber back to Dundonald is, I am advised, relatively trouble free; that is, until one approaches Dundonald itself, which becomes increasingly densely populated. At the Dundonald end we come right back with the Ballybeen Estate on the right this time, before reaching what I would imagine to be a particularly sharp corner at Dundonald. That is just a brief view of the obstacles, if one can call them that, around the circuit.

I think that the noble Lord would accept that it would interfere with things over what might be a considerable period of time. I say a considerable period of time, because I think he suggested that the roads might have to be closed for a shorter or longer period over each of the two days. It would be interfering with the daily activities of a very large number of people. It would affect the livelihood of many of them and the functioning of the vital services that we take for granted. All those problems would have very serious implications. The nature of any such disruption would place very serious burdens on the RUC. There could be problems also for the fire service and any emergency hospital cases. There would be problems going to and from hospital. That would tax resources a good bit further.

I draw the attention of the noble Lord and of all your Lordships to one aspect of the Bill before your Lordships. As the noble Lord has set it out it would increase permanently from 10 to 11 the number of road-closing orders that may be granted—I do not say will be granted—in any one year. The present limit of 10 has stood unchallenged for very many years and we believe that it has proved satisfactory. We believe that the limit reflects the wishes of both your Lordships' House and another place to balance the needs of motor sport with the disruption to the public and the services which people demand, even given the tourist potential which the noble Lord pointed out and, above all, the great popular appeal in Northern Ireland which even I have found. Any road closures would affect the public and the services. I am not aware of any demand for the number to be increased. The present 10 road-closing orders permitted under the legislation are granted for long-established motor car and motor cycle events. The circumstances in which they are applied at present do not involve disruption or the problems which I have sought to outline to your Lordships on a scale at all comparable to that which would be encountered under the proposal so ably put forward by the noble Lord.

In the course of my remarks I have drawn attention to the reluctance of the Government to accept a continuing increase in the number of road-closing orders that may be made in Northern Ireland. I have given an indication of what I am sure the noble Lord will accept are the practical problems that would result from a single closure order in favour of the event which he described to us. For that reason, with considerable regret, I have difficulty in supporting the Bill.

The Government have every sympathy with what the noble Lord is seeking to achieve and what we believe in many respects would be a pleasurable, certainly a colourful and for many thousands of people a nostalgic and memorable event. I thank the noble Lord for explaining the Bill to us this evening and, above all, for his continuing efforts in this direction. But I ask him whether he can seek to develop the proposals which he has so ably outlined to us in a manner which would avoid the difficulties which I have tried to spell out to your Lordships. I hope that I have not been too pessimistic, but I am sure that the noble Lord will appreciate these various choke points—as I think they are called—which would present great problems mainly to the RUC. I have had a very close briefing from the RUC. I asked all kinds of questions, and I am afraid that the RUC was not able to be any more sympathetic than I was able to be. For the reasons which I have sought to explain, I am afraid that I cannot say that the Government can actively support, or indeed accept, the noble Lord's Bill, let alone as it is drafted at the moment, as it would permanently increase the number of road-closure orders allowed every year under the 1977 order from 10 to 11.

4.45 p.m.

Lord Dunleath

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have been kind enough to respond to my proposal for a Second Reading of this Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, clearly appreciated the motivation behind the Bill. One point on which he touched is tremendously important. It is that motor sport is a unifying element in Irish society, north and south. There is no differentiation between Association football and Gaelic football. For as long as motor sport has been going its enthusiasts have joined together in a spirit of co-operation, friendship and comradeship. We look at this as an extension of that. I am grateful to the noble Lord for taking up the point.

I am also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hampton, for his general expression of support. I know that he also understands what we are on about. I am grateful to the noble Lord. Lord Lyell, for having replied in such detail and with such care. The main burden of what he said—and I know that he was sympathetic—was realistically to draw attention to the difficulties which could be involved. He mentioned the people residing in and around the circuit and the businesses conducted there. I can only say that to date I have been conscious of a tremendous groundswell of support from the people living there and the businesses there. This has been reported to me and I have myself heard it firsthand. But I shall certainly pursue the matter and take a further census of public opinion. The general reaction that I have had is entirely favourable. I have called on shopkeepers, publicans and others who live around the circuit and they say not to worry; whatever inconvenience there might be would be negligible compared with the extra business which would be generated. That tends to be the attitude that I have experienced so far.

I entirely agree that hospitals are another matter. As the noble Lord suggested, there is access to the Ulster Hospital via the Stoney Road. It is a fairly narrow road, but the access is there. But having said that, and also acknowledging that the Ards Hospital at Newtonards would be cut off, let me say that there is nothing unusual about having ambulances on a circuit during the course of a race, if only to cart away our fallen comrades. That has been traditional for many years. Indeed, the Monaco Grand Prix conducts itself through the streets of Monte Carlo without any apparent difficulty; so I do not think that this would be an insuperable problem.

Again, the soundings that I have taken indicate that the authorities would be prepared to consider and discuss it, without of course in any way committing themselves as to whether they consider it would be feasible, as indeed is the case with the RUC, who, as I say, were superb on the last occasion in 1978 and who have been entirely sympathetic and understanding. I should not like to commit them to anything at all. It would he quite wrong of me to do so. However, while being non-committal, they were, at the same time, prepared to explore the possibilities, and this is a process that I should like to pursue.

The noble Lord was quite right in saying that the existing 10 road closure orders under the 1977 Road Races (Northern Ireland) Order are, on the whole, non-disruptive because they involve roads which traverse parts of the Province which for the most part are not particularly built up. I fully appreciate the difference between the Ards circuit as it was in 1936 and the way it is in 1985 and will be in 1986. This is a factor which we have in no way overlooked.

However, having listened with great interest and, indeed, gratitude to what has been said, perhaps I may venture to propose that if your Lordships were good enough to give this Bill a Second Reading, I should be very happy to look further into the questions that have been raised and do my best to answer them at Committee stage. I think that it would be a pity just to leave the matter as this juncture. During my speech I did not go into the questions which I had been expecting because I was aware of the time, as indeed, I am now. Therefore, if I may crave the indulgence of your Lordships to give the Bill a second reading, I should be very happy to deal in much more detail during Committee stage with any questions that might be raised. My Lords, I beg to move.

On Question, Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.