HL Deb 14 March 1985 vol 461 cc227-9
Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether with reference to their Answer on the 31st January last (H.L. Deb. col. 737), consumer affairs items were included on the agenda of the internal market discussions on 11th February, and if so with what result; and whether quarterly meetings of the EEC consumer Ministers are now to be resumed.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Lucas of Chilworth)

My Lords, the new Commissioner Mr. Clinton Davis made a statement at the 11th February Council outlining what the Commission considered to be the priorities in the field of consumer protection. The other items of consumer interest discussed were the draft directives on product liability and doorstep selling. I think it is fair to say that some forward progress was made.

I understand that consumer affairs may be discussed by European Ministers again in May. Whether this heralds a move towards regular meetings I cannot say. That, as I believe the noble Baroness is aware, is not in my hands.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, can the Minister help us further and so save the time of the House? Is he aware that following the meeting on 11th February a statement was issued headed, Internal Market Consumer Protection Council"? In this, the statement made by Commissioner Clinton Davis was recorded. Does the Minister think he could put that statement in Hansard for us, which would save having to put down a written Question to obtain the same answer?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I do not believe I can have that statement repeated in Hansard without its being in response to a Question. However, I can promise to see that the statement is made available in the Library.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I will put down a Question for Written Answer. Does the noble Lord not agree that it is more satisfactory for the House to see that statement? Does the noble Lord also agree that it was disturbing to read in the statement dealing with this meeting on 11th February: As was to be expected, the Ministers did not reach any agreement, but rather confined their discussions to indentifying the difficulties"? We on these Benches feel that we could identify those difficulties just as well.

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, that may well be so, but I am sure the noble Baroness will recognise that there are some differing views among members of the Community. It is our desire that all those views should be reconciled before directives are made.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether he shares the high hopes entertained by the noble Baroness for a meeting of Europe's consumer Ministers? Further, if such a meeting does take place will my noble friend do his utmost to ensure that the consequences are not limited to another cascade of paper competing for valuable space in wastepaper baskets?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Peyton, but I think he will recall that there are only two member states who have specific consumer Ministers. Therefore, matters of consumer interest being referred to the Commission come from Ministers of a wider variety. As regards the amount of paper work, I think Commissioner Clinton Davis's statement makes it clear that he is interested in achieving unanimity of approach, which should in fact reduce the amount of paper work.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that discussions such as those which took place on 11th February tend to go on for an interminable time without any results being achieved? In order that your Lordships may give Her Majesty's Government the amount of support that they consider feasible in the circumstances, will the noble Lord give an account of the nature and extent of the contribution of the British representative in these discussions?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I should be very pleased to do so, but I think it would weary the House during Questions if I were to embark upon it, understanding the conventions that apply. May I briefly say that the United Kingdom have been represented at ministerial level at all meetings, which is perhaps a little more than I can say for some other member states. From that I believe our input into the discussions has been considerable. I should perhaps remind your Lordships that we in this country enjoy a very high standard of consumer protection, a high profile on consumer affairs, and many of the Community's directives are culled from our own domestic legislation.

Lord Broxbourne

My Lords, can my noble friend amplify that part of his Answer to the noble Baroness which related to the directives on unfair advertising and doorstep selling? Does he appreciate—I can think of no conceivable reason why he should know, but convention forces me to put the question in this form—that these directives were under patient and diligent scrutiny six or seven years ago by the Legal Committee of the European Parliament, of which I was then a member, and indeed chairman?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I recognise my noble friend's assiduous attention to these matters when he was a member of that committee. I am pleased that finally the Community has been able to agree a number of issues which were then before him. I believe that last week I answered the noble Lord, Lord Sainsbury, fairly fully on the question of doorstep selling. Progress on that continues. It was one of the matters discussed at the 11th February Council. We anticipate further progress during the course of this year. So far as misleading advertising is concerned, we adopted the directive in 1984. It has to be implemented by October 1986. The Government are presently consulting those bodies which will be affected by the directive.

Lord Sainsbury

My Lords, may I ask the Minister, who was so helpful the last time I asked questions on the progress being made, whether he can tell us anything about unit pricing for foodstuffs? Secondly, is he aware that the report of the House of Lords Select Committee on the European Community on unit pricing is due, I am informed, on Monday next? Will he take particular note of its last recommendation that until further research into possible costs has been carried out, the extension of mandatory unit pricing should be abandoned?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, may I first of all assure the noble Lord that Her Majesty's' Government will take note of the report of the Select Committee to which he referred? We have some reservations about unit pricing. We believe that it is better to complete agreement on package sizing before we move to unit pricing. As soon as we have achieved unanimity in that area, there may be some further point in moving towards unit pricing as we now understand the Commission's reading of that term.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, is it not time that consumers had some protection against consumer protection?

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