§ 3.18 p.m.
§ Lord Bruce-GardyneMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what discussions they have had with the Honda Motor 1447 Corporation regarding that company's plans for the establishment of manufacturing and/or assembly facilities at Swindon; and what consultations they have had with other established United Kingdom automobile manufacturers about this project.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, the Department of Trade and Industry holds discussions with Honda from time to time, as with any other potential inward investor in the United Kingdom. Such discussions are commercially confidential.
§ Lord Bruce-GardyneMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. Can he assure your Lordships, when my right honourable friend the Minister for Industry told the Commons the other day that Honda have not asked for any grant in respect of this operation, that we can draw the conclusion that if they were to ask for any grant they would not get it, and above all that there would be no question in future Finance Bills of a Honda clause to replicate the Nissan clause in last year's Finance Bill?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I confirm that Honda have not asked Her Majesty's Government for any grant, in so far as that is confirmation of what my right honourable friend said in another place. Regarding the other two points that my noble friend made, as these are hypothetical I regret that I cannot give him an answer.
§ Lord GrimondMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether it is not the case that at present there are adequate production facilities for motor vehicles in this country to meet the present demand? If that is the case, is it the Government's view that there will be a very great increase in the demand for motor vehicles, both in this country and in Europe?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, that really is rather wide of the Question. If I could keep my answer more in line with the original Question, there is no suggestion at this moment of time that increased and/or additional car manufacturing plants are to be erected in this country.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, is it not the case that the negotiations that have been taking place in this particular instance concerning the possible future development of some 367 acres in Swindon with a possible development of a joint manufacturing capacity in terms of engines, and also possibly the future assembly of cars, have been between Honda and BL direct? Will the noble Lord confirm that in those circumstances, it is not incumbent upon the Department of Trade and Industry as such to hold conversations with other automobile manufacturers as stated in the Question put down by the noble Lord?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, for his question because it enables me to say that, so far as we are aware, the land at Swindon is to be used for buildings which will enable the pre-delivery inspection of the Cowley-produced Honda version of the XX car; pre-delivery inspections for their motor cars currently 1448 carried out at Sheerness; and possibly the sub-assembly of certain components for the Honda version of the XX car. The collaborative arrangements between Honda and British Leyland are matters confidential to those two companies. In so far as they affect the Government's interest in British Leyland, we welcome such collaboration.
§ Lord JacquesMy Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that many Members of this House from all parties are interested in a high and stable level of employment? If Honda are prepared to take the risk then we welcome them.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, indeed we are immensely concerned with the employment of people in this country. If Honda's activities in Swindon which I have just outlined encourage some employment, however small, then they would be welcome to us.
§ Lord Bruce-GardyneMy Lords, notwithstanding the welcome that one would certainly offer to incoming businesses of this kind, is not the real issue the question of taxpayers' support for such an operation? Since Swindon is not in a development area, will my noble friend confirm that, if there were any question of selective assistance being given to this investment from the taxpayer over and above £5 million, the Government would first seek approval from both Houses of Parliament?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, again I have to say to my noble friend that that is quite hypothetical. It would be wrong for the Government to dictate to any company, whether it be a foreign-based company or a domestic-based comany, where they shall expand. Honda have chose at this moment in time an operation based in Swindon. There has been no question of grant or assistance. If that question arises, Her Majesty's Government will take into account all matters that would concern that issue.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, will the noble Lord confirm that, in just the same way as Her Majesty's Government give a vast and selective subsidy to the agricultural industry of this country, they would not be averse in certain circumstances to giving some support to industry?
§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth; My Lords, there is no question here of a subsidy arising. Assistance is given in development areas for the encouragement of labour related projects. If in this instance such a circumstance arose—which I find difficult to envisage—the rules by which the Government give such assistance would thereby apply.