§ 3.41 p.m.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement on terrorism which is now being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary. The Statement is as follows:
"As the House will know from the statement issued by the police yesterday, on 22nd June five people were arrested in Glasgow by the Strathclyde Police and detained under the Prevention of Terrorism Act. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has approved the extension of their detention for five days for further questioning. Since then the police have arrested and detained under the Act a further 16 people. Those detained are being questioned in connection with a number of offences, including the bombing of the Grand Hotel at Brighton.
"As a result of information obtained following the arrests made on 22nd June, the police were able to discover and disarm a bomb set for detonation on a long-term timer in a room at the Rubens Hotel, Buckingham Palace Road. The investigation, the discovery of the bomb and its disarming are outstandingly successful demonstrations of the professionalism, courage and determination of the police in the battle against terrorism which they are fighting on behalf of us all. I congratulate warmly all the forces concerned.
"The House will also be aware, however, that the bomb discovered at the Rubens Hotel was intended to form part of a wider operation involving the planting of bombs in a number of towns: Blackpool, Bournemouth, Brighton, Dover, Eastbourne, Folkestone, Great Yarmouth, Margate, Ramsgate, Southampton, Southend and Torquay. The bombs were to be timed to explode at intervals from mid-July, at the height of the holiday season, and the attacks would have been quite indiscriminate in their victims. But as last night's statement indicated, the police have reason to believe that the only device so far placed was the one discovered in the Rubens Hotel, and that the preparations of the IRA have been interrupted at an early stage.
"Nonetheless, the police must take account of what they regard as the slight possibility that it was not only in the Rubens Hotel that a bomb had been placed. Accordingly they are urgently pursuing co- 658 ordinated inquiries and searches on a basis agreed between all the chief officers of police concerned. This will involve conducting searches in the places identified as intended targets just as vigorously as if there were positive reasons for believing that bombs had been put in place there.
"The police service therefore now faces one of the largest preventive operations it has ever mounted. I have decided to ask the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis, Sir Kenneth Newman, to undertake personally the co-ordination of this operation. The commissioner's task is not to take over the local operational responsibilities of chief officers, but to provide a co-ordination centre and clearing house, in which individual forces may be represented, for the conduct of this operation. For this purpose, the forces principally involved will be invited to second appropriate officers temporarily to assist the commissioner in this task. He will in this way be able to ensure that information derived from related inquiries in any police force area is made available to others who may need to act upon it or refer to it. And these arrangements will enable the public and the press to be kept properly informed, particularly in relation to any ways in which they can help.
"But the local Members of Parliament may also have an important role to play. For this reason the commissioner, in consultations with the chief constables for the relevant areas, will be arranging a briefing tomorrow for Members of Parliament for the constituencies identified as possible targets. The purpose will be to explain the background and the police assessment as fully as practicable and to discuss ways in which the Members and the public can best help the police.
"The House will appreciate the limitations on what can be said at this stage in the inquiries about the considerable amount of information which has so far been discovered. This has already resulted in a major terrorist outrage being thwarted. Every possible effort is now being made to prevent any further risk to the public and to bring to justice those who have been planning the cold-blooded and indiscriminate murder and maiming of totally innocent people."
§ My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
§ Lord MishconMy Lords, I am sure that all parts of the House will be united upon three matters. The first is on the congratulations to the police forces who have been instrumental in making these discoveries and effecting certain arrests. About that there is no doubt and all of us will want to express our gratitude to them. The second point upon which I am sure all the House will be united is a further declaration which goes forth very clearly from these Benches and all Benches in Parliament that terrorism and hijacking are not going to be allowed to pay. The third matter is that, with a full sense of responsibility, one does not ask questions which go beyond reasonable probing and which in any way would interfere with the security of our people.
Having said that, there are some questions which I should like to put to the noble Lord, the Minister, whom I thank for having repeated the Statement in this House. I ask the first question with every respect and only in order to try to help if there are future 659 Statements of this kind. Possibly the Minister can tell me, by an answer to my question, that I have no need to complain or express apprehensions. I ask the Minister why so much publicity has been given, including in this Statement, to the 12 resorts which it is discovered were subject to threat. It is the beginning of the holiday season for the people who keep hotels, boarding houses and apartments in these resorts and people have obviously made their arrangements to go there. I noted that in this morning's Daily Telegraph Commander Simon Crawshaw, who is head of the anti-terrorist branch, was asked if he would give these resorts the all-clear. His answer was:
There is no question of giving the all-clear. I am certain the public need not have any fear in these resorts.If they have no reason for fear and everybody is to be encouraged to go to the resorts, why have the resorts been named? It does not seem to be doing any good and it can conceivably do some harm.My next question to the Minister is this. I also noticed in the press that there was an announcement—presumably somewhere, or at least a discovery somewhere—that there is a new liaison arrangement which was set up after that regrettable Brighton bombing, whereby there would be a Royal Ulster Constabulary presence at Scotland Yard to maintain a contact with the anti-terrorist squad. If after and out of that terrible tragedy that liaison has resulted, at least some of us would feel just one little bit of consolation. Is it true, and is there the liaison with the RUC that all of us would want to see?
My last question is this. Is there that association and co-operation with the hotels association and all other bodies, including those which may be associated with small establishments and not large ones, in order to ensure that there is that series of safeguards which all of us would want to see, especially at this time when presumably we are in the midst of these threats?
§ Lord WigoderMy Lords, I would not want to ask any questions arising out of this Statement because the questions which I would seek to ask are those which I know perfectly well it would be quite inappropriate for the Government to attempt to answer at this stage. I shall therefore, if I may, make only three brief comments.
First, as to the disclosure of the names of the towns to which the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, referred, it seems to me that the police were in a quite impossible dilemma. If they disclosed the names of the towns, they were liable to be criticised on the basis on which the noble Lord criticised them. If they did not and there was by any chance, however remote the possibility, an explosion in one of those towns, they would in due course be heavily criticised for not having alerted the public to that remote possibility.
Secondly, I note that the people who have been detained have had their detention extended for a period of five days for further questioning. I think it may be that few Members of your Lordships' House would query that decision by the Secretary of State. Perhaps it adds force to those of us who supported that power of extended detention when the Prevention of Terrorism Act was passed through your Lordships' House not very long ago.
660 Finally, may I say this? The planting of bombs with time fuses of this type is an act of the most despicable cowardice. It requires no courage, no skill, no ability and no bravery; it requires nothing except a lust to kill. What has always astonished me over the past few years when such offences have been committed has been the extraordinary success of the police in bringing to justice such a high proportion of the people who commit the offences. It reflects very, very highly on the skill and determination of the police force, and that skill and determination are obviously being repeated at the moment. I know that the whole House will want to join in the congratulations being extended to the police on their actions.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am most grateful to both noble Lords for their remarks and their kind references to the police. I entirely share, as I know does the whole House, the views which they have expressed, and I shall ensure that they are passed to the police.
The noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, asked why the resorts should be named. The answer really was, I think, given by the noble Lord, Lord Wigoder. I can understand that there are those who would question the wisdom of stating that there was a slight possibility that those towns might have been targeted, but equally there are no doubt those who would accuse the police of irresponsibility if they did not share the information that they had. It is not always easy to judge in these cases. If there was an error, it was an error in favour of disclosure. But I think that the noble Lord, Lord Wigoder, gave the answer for which the noble Lord. Lord Mishcon, was searching.
So far as a RUC presence in New Scotland Yard is concerned, what I can assure the noble Lord about is that there is indeed the closest co-operation between the RUC and New Scotland Yard on these matters, which are of course of such importance.
The noble Lord asked about hoteliers. Like members of the public, they should be on the alert for suspicious objects, individuals and incidents, but they should not institute searches of their establishments without advice from the police. I think that the best way that that can be taken forward is in the light of what I repeated in the Statement about the commissioner's responsibility in now bringing together all these forces to provide the clearing point for all the information that comes forward.
The noble Lord, Lord Wigoder, did not ask me any questions, but I note the points that he made, particularly about the extension of the Prevention of Terrorism Act. I think that that Act is serving us well.
§ Lord O'Neill of the MaineMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the excellent Statement, and I should like to ask him a question. Might this not be a good moment to have a review of security arrangements in the Palace of Westminster? Perhaps because I come from an area where these things are most important I have sometimes noticed a certain lack. It is a very difficult question. I have discussed it with Black Rod. But perhaps the Minister or his right honourable friend could consider the possibility of having a review of security as it exists in the Palace of Westminster today?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the matter of the security of the Palace of Westminster is under continuing review.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, I join in the tributes paid to the police. In view of the increasing scale and sophistication of terrorist attacks, may I ask my noble friend whether he will confirm that they are considered to come within the all-hazards approach for dealing with emergencies in peace and war, about which the Government made such a welcome Statement last week?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the matters with which we are concerned here are primarily for the police in their pursuit of terrorists. They are difficult and sensitive matters. I am well aware of my noble friend's interest in the all-hazards approach. Whether it is entirely appropriate in this instance I think is more a matter for the police to judge. I think that in this case it is best left to the police.
§ Viscount HanworthMy Lords, does the noble Lord agree that perhaps a very important reason why the places should be named is that if there is to be an investigation into the hotels and boarding houses, as he said there will be, unless people know what is happening and know that other places are involved, and unless there is a free statement of the whole position, absolute panic will be created? To my mind the situation could have been absolutely disastrous had the Statement not been made.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount for his comments.
§ Lord FittMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether prior to the arrests any approach had been made to the Government or the security forces of the Irish Republic, and whether there had been cooperation from those forces?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, what I can tell the noble Lord is that the arrests followed receipt of information. I cannot tell him whether the Government of the republic were involved.