Tourists and the Economy (Hansard, 21 June 1985)

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Lucas of Chilworth)
My Lords, detailed figures on 1985 are not yet available, but it is estimated that in 1984 expenditure by overseas visitors staying in London 482 amounted to £2,375 million, an increase of 14½ per cent. on 1983. Expenditure was on a wide range of goods and services and supported jobs in shops, hotels, restaurants, theatres, public transport and others, as well as in supply industries throughout the country.
I am optimistic about the prospects for this and future years. It is essential, however, that all those working in the tourist industry should continue to provide good value for money services.

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that encouraging Answer, particularly the reference to employment. What definite prospects are there for permanent employment in the trade and also for temporary work, particularly considering how useful such jobs could be for school leavers leaving at the time when the tourist trade begins?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, it is estimated that about a million jobs are taken up by tourist activities. My noble friend the Minister Without Portfolio is currently considering in his enterprise group various aspects of job creation, including the tourist industry. One is optimistic that that industry will provide even further job opportunities in the future.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, the noble Lord exhorts those within industry to give value for money. Does he not agree that we should expect our local authorities also to do likewise, when one considers the squalor in many of the main streets in the centre of our capital? Much of it is old litter. Cannot something be done to clean up these streets to make them more like the streets found in other cities of Europe?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I understand the concern that the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, expresses. The English Tourist Board has made representations through the regional tourist boards to local authorities. I should like to ask the noble Lord whether he does not agree that perhaps if we each separately and individually observed a rather more tidy way of going about our streets the responsibility would not necessarily fall upon the local authority and its expenditure.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, the noble Lord may be right, but surely the fact is that we have deep squalor in main streets in the city of London.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, your Lordships will know that the old London Tourist Board, the London—

§ Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede
The London Visitor and Convention Bureau, my Lords.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
—the London Visitor and Convention Bureau—I thank the noble Lord opposite—reconstituted only a few months ago, has introduced a number of street cleanliness schemes which I believe are having some effect.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, with reference to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Gainford, who was concerned about school leavers, does the Minister not 483 agree that in view of the fact that we have the Youth Training Scheme developing well the last thing one wants to do is to encourage school leavers to go into dead-end jobs in catering? If they are jobs with training, that is one thing, but the temptation for school leavers to take dead-end jobs is highly to be deplored. Does the Minister not agree?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I agree that to encourage people into dead-end jobs is not a worthwhile pursuit, but I think that encouraging youngsters into the catering industry is a very valuable thing to do. It is a valuable occupation and serves a wide variety of people, both home and overseas visitors.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the catering industry in this country has a very good record of training schemes for young people?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter. The House will probably recall that in an article in the Financial Times a few weeks ago Surrey University was praised as being a world centre for training in hotel management, catering and tourism.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, can the Minister indicate, in the figures of increased spending he quoted, how much is taken up in increased hotel charges in London? The levels these have reached have become a matter of concern to many people.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I very much regret that I cannot break down that figure as the noble Lord, Lord Dean of Beswick, asks. Across the world it is generally thought that our hotel prices are very much in line and I do not think that the noble Lord opposite should think only in terms of perhaps the Park Lane hotels because there are many other lower-priced hotels in our capital city.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that a million language students come to this country every summer? Many of these take part-time jobs in our catering industry. Will my noble friend bear in mind that, if we got rid of the wages council covering the catering industry, many of these jobs would be available for British students and would be most welcome as part of their training?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, again I understand what my noble friend has said. Many English students take vacation work throughout the country in the tourist and the catering industry. Your Lordships' House will be aware that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment is currently considering the role of the wages councils and their future. As I said in answer to an earlier supplementary question, so also is my noble friend the Minister Without Portfolio currently considering the restraints to further employment that now occur. The wages councils are perhaps one of them.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord can comment on the importance, once having got the foreign visitors to London, of persuading them to spread out into the countryside where there is much more space and many more facilities for them? Is he aware that, among other things, we have the largest number of inland waterway hire cruisers available of any country in the world and that in large areas these are already being used up to 50 per cent. by foreign visitors; but there is space for more?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, there is a misconception as to how many visitors remain in London for their entire stay in this country. Tourists spread widely across the country into Scotland, Wales and the West Country. They do not all stay in London.

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, this Question is going on at some length. Three noble Lords have risen to speak. Of course I will allow those three to speak—certainly the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, my noble friend Lord Inglewood, and the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, but I think that after that we shall probably have had enough.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware, as the noble Viscount, Lord St. Davids, reminded him, that it is vitally necessary to retain the goodwill of tourists coming to this country? While it may be good commercial practice never knowingly to undercharge, it is of vital importance that the actions of a minority in this country in not giving a fair deal to the tourists should be stamped on as firmly as possible.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, of course I agree with the noble noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington. As I said in my original Answer, it is essential that everybody working within the tourist industry should continue to provide good value-for-money services.

Lord Inglewood
My Lords, can we all agree that we need not be so critical of the catering and hotel industry in this country, but rather that the standards there have risen greatly over the past few years—not only in the practical side of their work, which is of a standard such as we see in hotels in Switzerland and Austria, and which has been the case there for many years; but that, in addition, we have very high standards in a number of colleges in this country?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I think that the best way that I can reply is to say that I totally agree with my noble friend in his remarks.

§ Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede
My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, is not going to speak, may I do so for a second?

Noble Lords
No!

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, I must bow to the noble Lord the Opposition Chief Whip if he wishes to do so.

§ Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede
My Lords, I would not wish the message to come from this Question that 485 London hotel prices are excessive. Is the noble Lord the Minister aware that some 20,000 members of the American Bar Association will be coming here for a convention on 15th July; that that convention is likely to produce 60 million dollars' worth of revenue, and that the Americans regard London hotel prices, in dollar terms, as being very reasonable?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I was aware of that convention. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede. He will know that many of those American families coming to this country are staying in a variety of hotels in and around London at varying price levels to satisfy their own need.