City Action Teams (Hansard, 17 June 1985)

§ Lord Rodney
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Elton)
My Lords, a total of 1,810 units have now been completed on the sites. Of these, 1,492 are for owner-occupation. Forty-two per cent of the new occupiers previously lived within the three dockland boroughs.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, that is the wrong Answer.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I knew that this would happen one day. There may be a certain sense of déjà vu later.
The city action teams, if I have the subject right, were introduced by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Environment, by my noble friend the Minister without Portfolio and by other Ministers at a series of regional launches on 18th and 19th April. The teams operate in the inner-city partnership areas of Birmingham, Liverpool, London, Manchester-Salford and Newcastle-Gateshead. Their task is to improve the contribution of the policies and programmes of my department, the Department of Trade and Industry, and the Department of Employment and Manpower Services Commission in tackling the problems of these areas.

§ Lord Rodney
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that eventual Answer. I was slightly confused when I heard the previous one. May I ask my noble friend whether the Government are spending substantially more money on inner cities than have previous Governments? Also, will these city action teams help to develop the physical and economic facilities of the older cities?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, since 1979 the Government have allocated £1,890 million to inner-city areas—and through the urban programme alone. That is more than 10 times what was allocated between 1974 and 1979. We shall continue to give priority to schemes to strengthen the economy, but we shall also continue to help local authorities to tackle social problems through the inner-city partnerships and to address them directly through the programmes of the Department of the Environment, the Home Office, the Department of Education and Science, the DHSS and other departments.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords, can the Minister give any examples of how the inner-city teams have been able to use Government funding more effectively than Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle were doing before the teams moved in?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the purpose of the teams is to assist, not to supplant. They have been going for only two months, but there are signs that they are already improving effectiveness.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords, my question was whether the Minister could give us examples of any action taken and about what the teams have done. Can the noble Lord give details of any positive schemes that they have set up?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I think the noble Baroness expects these people to go out and do something in a building, on the ground, within eight weeks of being set up. Their function is to improve co-ordination between Government departments and public bodies. That will take more than eight weeks to bear fruit.

§ Lord Plummer of St. Marylebone
My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister say which particular areas of London will be dealt with by the city action teams and what funds will be made available to them for this purpose?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the answer to the second part of my noble friend's question is that this is an organisational way of spending existing funds better. As to the areas on the ground that my noble friend asked about, I do not think I can give him an accurate answer in the time available at the Box.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, while I recognise the ambitions of the Government in this matter, may I ask the Minister whether he will not acknowledge that these teams are very poor substitutes for giving councils, who know their problems well, increased support in the rate support grant so that they can get on with doing the job in their own areas?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, there is a certain tendency on the Front Bench opposite to think that any problem is best solved by throwing more money at it. On this side we think it is best to use the money we have more effectively.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, in view of the fact that this situation has arisen over many years, and to some extent in the case of London because of the policy of moving people out of London, does my noble friend the Minister not agree that there is a great reversal of previous policies and that this will take considerable time to effect?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, it will take time, but the effects will begin to be seen quite early.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord not aware that in an answer to his noble friend he placed a figure on the amount of money that the Government have "slung" at the problem, to use his own term? Is it possible, in the fullness of time, that the House may be presented with a report showing the exact activities in which these teams have been engaged with reference to particular areas? Does the noble Lord not agree that that may be helpful to your Lordships' House?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the question which my noble friend asked was about help which we had given to the inner-city areas, and to that there is a numerical answer. The noble Lord asked whether we will publish further details of progress. I am not aware of what plans there are, but I am sure that if they are not published without his instance, he will put down another Question.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, the Minister said that this was an organisational method of spending existing funds in a better way. Can he say how the city action teams will improve on the measures taken up till now for the achievement of racial equality in inner-city schemes?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the function of the teams is to look at what is called in jargon the interface between 4 public bodies and to see that they operate in support of and not against each other. That will have benefits for all members of the community who are in receipt of the effect of public money spent on their behalf, including the ethnic minorities.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is a tendency on the Front Bench opposite to believe that the setting up of teams and units is something which will resolve the enormous problems that they have created over the past five years, especially in terms of unemployment and the more acute problem that exists in the inner cities? Can he say who works on those teams and what co-operation they have with the local authorities, which, as my noble friend said quite clearly, are the basic hope for improving these inner city areas? Can he say a little bit more about? Does it mean anything other than the setting up of a team?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the teams are made up from representatives of the departments which I listed to start with. The London team has met formally three times and has held meetings with private and voluntary sector interests, including business in the community and the NCVO. The noble Lord asked whether we did not have a tendency on this Bench to provide more organisation, which I think he thought was reciprocal to the tendency which I identified on his Front Bench to provide more money. I think that that is fair. We believe that if one is to spend vast amounts of public money it should be done in an organised and effective way and we should make sure that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing. It has not done for many, many years.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, can the noble Lord enlighten us a little as to what is the status of these teams? Are they set up, as it were, comparable to quangos, or is this merely another example of the Government's determination to insert an additional level of local government?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, this is not the insertion of an additional level of anything. It is a way to see that the existing levels work better together.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what he meant when he referred to the CCVO?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I think that it would have been the NCVO: the National Council for Voluntary Organisations.