§ 2.43 p.m.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what criteria and procedure will be used in appointing the chairmen of the successor authorities to the GLC and the six metropolitan county councils.
§ The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Elton)The chairmen of the successor authorities to the GLC and the metropolitan county councils will be chosen and appointed by the members of those authorities. The procedure is prescribed, in the case of the new authorities created by the Local Government Bill, under Clauses 20 and 34 respectively. In the case of existing authorities, existing statutory provisions will continue to apply.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, I am extremely grateful to the Minister for that reply. Will he comment on statements in the press that the chairman of the successor authority to the GLC has been approached, if not officially appointed? That person is "Tag" Taylor, who retired some time ago from local government politics upon his acceptance of a well-paid post with a quango as chairman of the Southern Water Authority. May I also ask the Minister how many approaches or soundings have been made in respect of the chairmanship of the successor authorities to the six metropolitan county councils?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, the noble Lord's Question referred to successor authorities. The body to which the noble Lord has referred is, I believe, the London residuary body, which, in the terminology of the Bill, is not a successor authority, although it is a successor 1226 body. I naturally answered the Question which the noble Lord had on the Order Paper.
It is true, however, that Sir "Tag" Taylor has been approached. The noble Lord has read the newspapers aright, and we think that his is a very good appointment.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, do not all these persons have one feature in common—
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, may I press the Minister further on this point?
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, do not all these persons have one thing in common: that none of them would have been elected by the people of London?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, most of the people referred to in the Question have nothing to do with London but with the metropolitan counties.
§ Lord Harmar-NichollsMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that most people would expect both him and the Government to disregard the mud that is being thrown even before the Bill is on the statute book?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, most of the mud misses, and the rest of it finds targets other than the Government.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, I am extremely sorry if the noble Lord, Lord Harmar-Nicholls, thinks that asking legitimate questions in your Lordships' House is throwing mud. I am acting on behalf of what I believe to be the public interest. Whoever are the people appointed, they will be responsible for a great mass of services to the public. I will now put another question to the Minister. Will the person who has been appointed be permitted to retain the first post to which he was appointed, that of chairman of a water authority, in addition to holding the new appointment?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, the only question I heard the noble Lord ask was whether the person in question will hold two jobs. The answer is no.
§ Lord Graham of EdmontonMy Lords, in this matter of genuine public interest, in view of the first appointment to a residuary body (which is the precursor to the successor authorities) being of the manner which has been described, will the Minister bear it in mind that the broad political allegiances of the populations oversighted by the residuary bodies will be very mixed and that unless the appointments made broadly reflect that political allegiance across the board there will be strong support for the view that the Local Government Bill has less to do with democratic accountability than providing jobs for the boys and the girls?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, as the noble Lord rightly points out, every aspect of political allegiance is reflected in the areas in question. The noble Lord asks that an appointee should combine every political allegiance in his own person. We do not make these appointments on the basis of political allegiance—
§ Lord Graham of EdmontonI believe the Minister, my Lords.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I am interested that the noble Lord who asked this Question should join with such amusement in that cheer, having just said that his Question was not intended to throw mud but was meant to be in the public interest. I repeat that appointments are not made on that basis, and nor was this appointment. Sir "Tag" Taylor was appointed because he was involved in London local government for nearly 30 years. He chaired both the London Boroughs Association and the Association of Metropolitan Authorities. He ceased active involvement in local government in 1982.
§ Lord Graham of EdmontonMy Lords, I accept completely what the Minister has said: that it is impossible for one individual to reflect all political views. Will the Minister bear in mind that I simply want to know that, at the end of the day, when all the appointments which the Minister has in mind have been made, the political complexion of the authorities will be reflected by the totality of the appointments?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I did not detect a question there, except that the noble Lord asked whether I am aware of the point he makes. Yes, I am.
§ Baroness Fisher of RednalMy Lords, will the Minister also consider the fact that there are many women who have been very active in local government and that they, too, should be considered along with the old boy network as being suitable chairpersons?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, if the noble Baroness or her friends have any names in view, then I shall be interested to know them.
§ Lord Harmar-NichollsMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that everyone would expect these appointments to be based not on sex or on party allegiance but on ability? We hope the Government will keep to that criterion.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, we want to appoint the best person for the job, and we have started on that course rather well.
§ Lord Wilson of LangsideMy Lords, does it not occur to the Minister that people in the real world outside this House will find vast amusement in the Conservative and Labour Parties accusing one another of giving jobs to the boys?