§ 11.24 a.m.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what was the tonnage, the number of ships and the number of sea-going personnel in the British Merchant Navy in the years 1980 and 1985.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, at the end of March 1985—the latest figures available—there were 758 ships with a total deadweight tonnage of 21 million tonnes in the United Kingdom registered merchant fleet of 500 gross tonnes and over. The corresponding figures for the end of March 1980 were 1,297 ships and 42 million deadweight tonnes. I am informed that the number of seamen on the General Council of British Shipping register at the end of March 1985 was 37,000 compared with 71,000 at the end of March 1980.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I wonder what would have been the reaction of the media or of the Benches opposite if those figures had been admitted by a Labour Minister. Would the noble Lord not agree that the figures he has just given us reveal that this Government have allowed the mercantile marine—until recently the pride and strength of this country—to sink into a situation of almost total collapse? Is he aware that many members of the mercantile marine today are saying that if there is another Falklands-type crisis the mercantile marine, which played such a valiant part in the task force, would be totally inadequate to sustain another such task force?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, first of all, I would not say that the situation is one of total collapse. The reasons for the decline are fairly straightforward: they concern changes in trading patterns. I think it is worth pointing out that 60 per cent. of the decline has been in the tanker fleet, and the reasons for that are fairly clear.
In terms of container ships, which contribute in a somewhat disproportionate way to some of the profits of the merchant marine, the figures have remained more or less the same. Regarding the need for ships for defence and the role that the fleet plays in support of defence forces and civil supply in times of emergency and war, that is recognised. It is subject to planning and review and, in addition, our fellow members of NATO have pledged to pool resources in the event of a war affecting the Alliance.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, notwithstanding what the noble Lord has said, is not the decline in the merchant fleet a matter for profound regret and concern to this country, once the greatest maritime nation in the world? Can he tell the House how many British-owned merchant ships are registered in Liberia?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I cannot give the noble Lord a precise figure for the number of 946 merchant ships registered in Liberia. However, I can tell him that 5 million tonnes of United Kingdom-owned merchant ships are flagged out. What proportion of that is to Liberia, I could not say.
§ Lord GreenwayMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that the decline of our merchant fleet is partly because of the increase in the merchant fleets of developing countries, which has been assisted by agreements such as the UNCTAD agreement?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, that is indeed true. The increase in fleets of less developed countries, with their lower crewing costs, has been a contributory factor.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I sympathise with the noble Lord for again having been thrust into the position of answering for a department for which he has no personal responsibility, but does he not realise that his answers as to the reasons for this decline are totally inadequate? The decline has been very sudden over the last three years in particular. Has he been briefed on the statement made by the Minister responsible, Mr. David Mitchell, at the recent conference on money and ships in the City, when he said that the Government expect British owners to switch to flags of convenience at an even faster rate than before? Is not that an appalling Government policy towards what was once, as I say, our pride and strength?
Although I know the noble Lord cannot answer this question with authority this morning, may I ask him to draw to the attention of the department responsible the necessity for an investigation into this, either by Select Committee, Royal Commission or whatever it may be? Will the noble Lord write to me after consulting with his department on this proposal for an investigation into what is an appalling national disaster?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, first of all, I think I am responsible in your Lordships' House for answering for the Department of Transport, to which this Question is directed. The noble Lord, Lord Hatch, quoted my honourable friend as saying that he expected more British ships to flag out. He speaks for the Government. Obviously that is not Government policy: it is his opinion of what may happen.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, will the noble Lord answer my second supplementary question? Will he write to me after consultation has taken place?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraYes, my Lords.