Swindon Health Authority: Managerial Appointment (Hansard, 31 July 1985)

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, it would be highly inappropriate for me to discuss the reasons why a specific individual was, or was not, appointed general manager in a particular district health authority. Matters relating to the appointment of staff in the National Health Service are confidential and advice to health authorities on their appointment of certain individual candidates to the post of general manager is, and should remain, confidential.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that this decision is one of a number that are causing great concern within the National Health Service? May I ask the noble Baroness whether it is true that the Minister approved the short list which had been submitted by the Swindon Health Authority for the post of general manager and then when they unanimously recommended the appointment of Mr. Trevor Goodman he vetoed it? How can a Minister of Health possibly intervene in these local affairs? Is it not right that a local health authority, as she has said previously, normally knows best? Is this not a gross example of governmental central interference with the way in which the Health Service is run?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I presume that the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, gets his information from articles in the local press—

§ Lord Ennals
No!

§ Baroness Trumpington
—and from the Health and Social Service Journal of which, I believe, the noble Lord is on the editoral advisory panel. It is most unfortunate that articles should have appeared giving details of this case. A number of people have been caused embarrassment in what should have been a confidential matter.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, if I may answer that—

Several noble Lords
Order!

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, never mind! I shall come back to it later.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that I was in Swindon last Friday and that what I found in Swindon was bitter anger at the Minister's decision to veto a properly-constituted appointment? Is she further aware that, as a result of the veto, the morale of the staff has been very badly 275 injured and the re-organisation which the district health authority wants to undertake in accordance with Griffiths is being delayed, and that it is no use her coming along here and making excuses for the Minister not giving reasons when in fact, I now understand, he is prepared to give reasons?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I am not aware of the travels of the noble Lord. A Minister's only concern in looking at all proposals for appointing general managers is to ensure that the selection process has produced the best possible candidate for the job. That person therefore should be acceptable to the district and region concerned and to Ministers.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, if this person who was recommended unanimously was thought to be unsuitable, why did the Minister accept him as a member of the short list? Surely, if there was an objection, it should be stated then. Is not this central interference inimical to good management? Is she not aware that Sir Maurice Dorman, a very distinguished public servant, who is chairman of the health authority is himself extremely angry about this interference? May I also ask if her reference to me gave any implication that I have some pecuniary advantage out of giving editorial advice to the Journal? And let me say in answer to the noble Baroness that I did not get my information from the journal.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I still think that the noble Lord is getting his information from hearsay, I said earlier that I understand he was on the editorial advisory panel so I presume that from that he has no financial gain and I certainly did not imply otherwise. I think that I have really answered the questions in so far as I am able, in so far as this is a confidential matter and in so far as I believe that the noble Lord must be going on hearsay—and I wish him a very happy holiday!

Lord Wallace of Coslany
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that I also wish her a very happy holiday? She deserves it because she has been a maid of all work in this House for many months. Is she further aware that I should like to say "Farewell!" to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich; and that he has my personal invitation to join the Canaries! As far as my supplementary question is concerned, I should like to support the noble Lord, Lord Ennals; but, on the other hand, is she aware that what the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, is complaining about is happening all over the country? It happened in Norwich, it is happening in my health district where good, first-class administrators—

Several noble Lords
Speech!

Lord Wallace of Coslany
Is she aware that first-class administrators are being by-passed by the appointment of outside people and that you cannot run a national health service like Marks and Spencer? In my case, in my district—

Several noble Lords
Order, Order!

Lord Wallace of Coslany
—a retired colonel has been appointed. Is the noble Baroness aware that I am furious at the way the Health Service is being mismanaged and treated as a second-hand grocer's shop?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, of the 180 district general managers appointed to date, by far the greatest proportion are former district administrators. We must ensure that the appointment process has identified the best person available for these new posts from the widest possible field, whether from inside the Health Service or outside. The National Health Service has many outstanding people but it does not have a monopoly.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, may I revert to the original Question? May I ask the noble Baroness to answer specifically whether it is right or wrong that the person who is the subject matter of this Question was on a short list? Was that short list approved by the Secretary of State; and, if somebody is approved on a short list, would she kindly say why that person is not now deemed to be suitable for the appointment?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the gentleman concerned was on a short list. I believe that my right honourable friend in another place did not agree with the short list and asked that they should look again.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, I am sorry to persist, but I must revert, if I may, to the clear question that I put. Was the short list with that gentleman's name on it approved or not by the Secretary of State?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the Minister does not have to accept the short list.