European Community: Treaty Amendments (Hansard, 29 July 1985)

Lord Chelwood
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, no precise proposals for treaty amendment have yet been put forward by our partners. Political co-operation is of course a separate matter and does not fall within the European Community treaties.

Lord Chelwood
My Lords, is it not a little odd that no definite amendments have yet been put forward? May I ask my noble friend whether the Government have any time-scale in mind were amendments to be put forward, bearing in mind that 12 Governments would have to approve them and that 12 Parliaments would have to endorse them? Secondly, may I ask my noble friend whether she can say if the Government think it might be necessary to amend the treaty in order to move more towards majority voting, for which the treaties already make substantial provision?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, in answer to my noble friend's first question on a timescale for treaty 5 amendment, I would refer him to what my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said in another place—that we must go to the inter-governmental conference and consider what is put before us. On his second point, we have already put forward a number of practical proposals. We are now awaiting concrete proposals from our partners as a basis for discussion at the conference. We shall then consider whether to put forward any further ideas ourselves.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that information. Can she say a word about the Cockfield proposals, which are relevant in this context and which include 60 measures? Is she confident that the timetable for the Cockfield proposals will be adhered to, and that the matter will be completed by the end of the year? Secondly, can she say what effects the development of a freer internal market will have on the British economy, and also on the levels of unemployment in this country?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, we have welcomed the commitment to the completion of the Common Market, which is a fundamental objective of the Treaty of Rome and which has consistently been one of our own major objectives in the Community. Indeed, much of the Commission's White Paper accords with our own thinking. The European Council identified, as areas for priority, action on those matters which we had in fact put forward in our own programme of action. They include the removal of technical barriers to free movement of goods within the Community; the creation of a free market in financial services and transport sectors; the full freedom of establishment for the professions and the liberalisation of capital movements. We believe that this will help the economy of Europe and, of course, the economy of our country, and that it could therefore make a contribution to reducing unemployment.

§ Lord Shinwell
My Lords, if there is an absence of the treaty asked for in this Question, can we be assured that as regards the need for military co-operation there is no difficulty whatever? Can the noble Baroness say that there is complete unity in that respect?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, we have put forward proposals for political co-operation. On the particular point that the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, raises, which is related to defence, this is of course a concern of the NATO Alliance. We hope that it will be possible to strengthen co-operation in this area in such a way that all partners can participate. The Western European Union may initially be the right vehicle for this.

§ Lord Shinwell
My Lords, will the noble Baroness understand that there is not much value in what is called political co-operation which undertakes various aspects on which there is agreement if there is not complete co-operation in the matter of dealing with aggression if it should emerge?

§ Baroness Young
Yes, my Lords. The particular point that the noble Lord puts is of course a question that is covered by NATO. The issue that is addressed 6 in this Question is one of political co-operation. On that, we have put forward proposals for a binding political co-operation agreement.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, are we correct in understanding that there are no proposals from the British Government which require amendment to the treaty in regard to the completion of the internal market as distinct from politicial co-operation Does not the noble Baroness think that if there are any amendments arising, which the Government may be considering, it might be wise to try to make the existing treaty work first?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the Government take the point that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, has made. We want to see the full implementation of the Community treaties as they are at present. Indeed, we have put forward proposals that could be implemented without treaty amendment.

§ Baroness Elles
My Lords, will my noble friend agree that, if it is the Government's wish—and I believe that it is the wish of the people of this country—to have the internal market completed according to the plan of the noble Lord, Lord Cockfield, by 1992, it would not be practicable to try to work within the treaties as they stand without substantial amendment at least to Article 100, unless there is some interinstitutional agreement to cover that particular point?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, it is the Government's wish that we should implement very many of the proposals that have been made in the White Paper on the completion of the Common Market My understanding is that some of the proposals would require a treaty amendment.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that we on these Benches have every sympathy with the Government's attempt to deal with the difficult matters necessary in order to complete the internal market?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his remarks.

§ Lord Northfield
My Lords, can the noble Baroness add to the answer she gave a couple of weeks ago about a small secretariat to further political co-operation? In particular, can she say whether other countries of the Nine have agreed to this or have commented on it?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, we put forward proposals at Milan for a binding political co-operation agreement which incorporated a small permanent secretariat and closer co-operation on security These ideas, together with other ideas that were put forward at Milan, will now be discussed among the Ten in the coming months.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that a number of people in the country, including some of those sitting behind her, are not at all anxious for the Government to proceed rapidly in this direction?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, that does not surprise me coming from the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins of Putney, but I was asked for the Government's view.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, I am sorry to press the noble Baroness further on this, but in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Elles, she said that if certain proposals were to be pursued they would require amendment to the treaty. Would the noble Baroness kindly publish those amendments which she believes would, in that event be necessary?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I should like to make it absolutely plain to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, and to others who may be concerned about this, that before any commitments are made the House will have ample opportunity to discuss these matters. The House will recall that we deposited the report of the Dooge Committee in the Library and that it was debated in another place before the Milan meeting. Nor can there be any question of an amendment of the treaties without the consent of Parliament.

Lord Chelwood
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that she would find it very difficult indeed to find any noble Lords (certainly not more than a tiny number) on this side of the House who share the views of the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, on this matter?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his intervention. I hope that the majority of those in your Lordships' House, and certainly those who sit on the Government Benches, are interested in a forward look to the European Community and agree that to that end Britain's ideas should be put forward vigorously.