Ethiopia: Famine Relief (Hansard, 26 July 1985)

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, since the beginning of 1983 the cost of British famine relief to Ethiopia, including our share of European Community relief, has amounted to £65 million. During the same period the European Community, as such, has provided £84 million. We do not have comparable figures for the United States, but in the United States' fiscal year ending on 30th September 1984 the United States provided £12 million and in the current year plans to provide about £112 million. We do not know the value of any famine relief provided to Ethiopia by the Soviet Union, but overall the famine relief assistance provided by the Soviet Union and its allies is on a very small scale compared with that being provided by the West.

§ Lord Brougham and Vaux
My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for her reply. Will she not agree that from not only this quarter of the House but all quarters of the House a debt of gratitude is owed to Bob Geldof and all involved in Band Aid for the tremendous work they have done to help these poor people in Ethiopia? Will she not further agree that the Answer to the Question shows that we and our allies are providing a lot of aid to these people and that the Russians seem to prefer to give aid in different ways?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, yes. I am glad to publicly acknowledge the extraordinary amount of money that has been raised by the Band Aid group, which I think reflects the very real feeling of all British people of concern about the famine in Ethiopia. I think the figures speak well for what has been provided by the Western countries in this tragedy.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, is it not the case that the Government have already admitted that they have provided no new money for the famine relief in Ethiopia or elsewhere, and that all the money that has been provided has been transferred from one part of the ODA budget, including the contingency fund within that budget, to another part? Does this not mean that some of the normal recipients of our aid are 1460 having to go without? In this connection, is it true, as has been suggested by the Leader of the Opposition in another place, that one of the sufferers from this transfer of aid is Tanzania and the money that was to go to the support of hospitals in that country?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, has asked that question before, and I shall confirm the answer that I gave him earlier: that the money which has been provided for famine relief in Ethiopia has come largely from the contingency fund; and that if he looks at the Answer that has been given by my right honourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development in another place, he will see that he has confirmed that it has come from the contingency fund, the purpose of which is to provide money for such emergencies.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, so far—

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I was asking where the money has been transferred from. Will the noble Baroness answer my question? Where has the money been transferred from?

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, so far as help from the Soviet Union to Ethiopia is concerned, can my noble friend confirm that it has mainly taken the form of arms provided to enable the Marxist Government of that country to fight their enemies?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, there is some evidence that that is the case.

Lord Oram
My Lords, if the purpose of the original Question was to prove that the Soviet Union is cynical, self-seeking and ungenerous in its attitude to developing countries, is that not something that is well known, has been very much on the record for some 40 years, and applies as much to Ethiopia as to the third world in general? However, if the purpose of the Question was to seek to prove how generous our Government and the United States Government have been, why compare them with the Soviet Union, which has such a drastically poor record in this matter? Would the noble Lord not be well advised to study the report of the all-party Foreign Affairs Committee on Famine in Africa, which was highly critical of the degree of support that the Government have given?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, it is not for me to question the reasons a particular Question has been put down on the Order Paper; it is for the Government to respond to it. I have given the figures as asked, and I think the House can draw its own conclusions from them. I have already indicated that, quite properly, we have given very generously in response to the very tragic situation arising from famine in Ethiopia and indeed in other parts of Africa. I should add that not only has there been the money that we have given through the ODA but also the Ministry of Defence has contributed some £9 million as its share of the RAF airlift in Ethiopia.

§ Lord Harvey of Prestbury
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the figures she has given include the cost of operating the Hercules aircraft in Ethiopia?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I have just indicated that the Ministry of Defence has contributed a certain proportion of that. The other part will come from the direct money from the ODA.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, may I ask a question that is intended entirely in a constructive sense? The noble Baroness says that a large part of our £64 million came from the ODA contingency fund. Can she say where the other part came from, and what was the breakdown?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, if the purpose of the noble Lord's question is to identify some projects that have been lost, my understanding of the situation is that the money has come from the contingency fund and that, in the course of a year, not necessarily all the money is actually spent, because for a variety of reasons it cannot be spent. I do not have any reason for thinking that we have switched money from one project to another for Ethiopia.

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether Her Majesty's Government are going to be involved in any way in the distribution of the money raised by the Live Aid concert?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, how the money is spent and how any of the supplies may be distributed is of course a matter for the Live Aid group and their supporters. However, if we are asked for help or advice, we shall be very happy to give it.

Lord Oram
My Lords, has not Mr. Bob Geldof struck up a partnership with USAID in this matter, and was there not an opportunity that, possibly, our Government missed in offering help in the distribution of the funds that he and his colleagues have raised? Did we miss an opportunity?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am not aware that we have missed an opportunity. Our position has been absolutely plain all along. We wish the aid to get to the people who require it. If asked, we would help in any way we could in the distribution of it.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, am I correct that the noble Baroness's answer to the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, indicates that money has not been switched from Tanzania, and particularly from hospitals in Tanzania, in order to fund relief work in Ethiopia?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, that is my understanding of the position.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, apart from the Government contribution, is there any estimate of the amount of money collected and sent from individual British people and provided in that way?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I do not have that figure in front of me. I know, however, that it amounts to a very generous sum of money. My understanding is that it is quite a proportion of the sum of money that the Government have raised. I believe that this reflects the real concern of the British people.