Holloway Prison: C1 Unit (Hansard, 23 July 1985)

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Glenarthur)
My Lords, we accept the view of the Holloway Project Committee that C1 Unit is not currently meeting the needs of the prisoners there as well as it should. An urgent assessment will be carried out to examine the feasibility of reciting the unit in purpose-built accommodation, and immediate steps will be taken to improve conditions at the present unit.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer and also for his concern. Does he not agree that the report from the Holloway Project Committee, plus the recommendations from MIND and the NCCL, point to an even more positive and structured response from the Government? Does he not acknowledge the fact that in this unit there were in the last month alone no fewer than 20 self- 1093 mutilation cases and four attempted suicides? Does the Minister not agree that that points to an absolutely unacceptable situation in the C1 Unit, and that such is an affront to a civilised society?
Arising out of the report, can the Minister say, first, whether a site, plus supportive funding, has been earmarked for the rebuilt C1 Unit to which he has referred? Secondly, can the Minister say whether, in order to alleviate the present situation for the very vulnerable women within that unit, there will be additional funding for extra nursing staff and for more officers to take the women to the training unit and to the recreational facilities? At the moment there are not sufficient officers, because many of them are on escort duties and are unable to take the inmates to the facilities.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the noble Baroness will be aware that the wing in question deals with women who are very highly disturbed. So far as a new site is concerned, I believe that the recommendations which the report contains are positive. Obviously we must look very carefully at them, and an urgent feasibility study will be carried out to assess the suitability of another site within Holloway. As regards staffing and other implications, the noble Baroness will be aware from the report that we are working closely with the DHSS and its experts.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that it is in no way satisfactory to say that a feasibility study will be carried out? Immediate action is required to remove these women from where they are and to put them somewhere else. Is the noble Lord further aware that the All-Party Penal Affairs Committee wrote to the Home Secretary over a month ago making these points? I think that it has not yet received an answer; or, if it has, it has not yet reached me. When there are people mutilating themselves at this level of numbers it is a form of infection of the most dangerous kind. It cannot be left while a few scientists work out a feasibility study. Is the noble Lord able to give us a more satisfactory answer?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I share the noble Lord's concern; I can promise him that. What is important is that we achieve the right answer at the end of the day. That is what has gone so sadly wrong in the past. I can tell the noble Lord that we have identified a site, but we cannot build on it overnight. For example, there may be all sorts of technical features, such as the existing drains, and so on, beneath the ground at Holloway, which must be looked at. That is why the feasibility study is being carried out. I assure the noble Lord that I am doing all I can to expedite it.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, as long as we do not have to wait until the end of the day.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I cannot be precise on the timing, but my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has made it perfectly clear that he is trying to achieve this with great urgency.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, can the Minister tell us what immediate steps are being taken to ensure that 1094 the women from C1 are able to take advantage of the facilities in the skill training unit? Is it a fact that they have not been able to take advantage of those facilities because of the lack of people to supervise?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, my right honourable friend has said that steps will be taken urgently to improve and expand the amount of space at present available for inmates' association and activities. In addition, work will be carried out on such things as the lighting, and so on, which at the moment are very poor. So that is in hand.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, may I associate these Benches with the deep sense of urgency conveyed by the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson? May I ask the Minister whether, apart from the representations made to the department by MIND for the closure of this psychiatric ward, he has seen the report by Charles Irving, the chairman of the All-Party Mental Health Committee? He said that a high proportion of inmates have suffered mental disorder and that prison should not be a dumping ground for the mentally ill. Cannot something be done by the National Health Service during the period when any rebuilding is to be done at Holloway? Is not the sense of urgency that great?

§ Lord Glenarthur
Yes, my Lords, I have seen the report to which the noble Lord refers. He will be aware that there are difficulties. Certainly life is made more complicated in some respects by the Mental Health Act and the fact that some people fall outside it. However, it is our belief that offenders who are mentally disordered within the terms of the Mental Health Act should not be in prison, and we are taking soundings and trying to look at a possible way forward for those who fall between the two stools.
In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Lockwood, on the question of staffing, the level of staffing in the C1 unit as it exists, together with the balance between nursing and discipline staff, is now being urgently examined with a view to providing a full regime. I hope that that will reassure the noble Baroness.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the situation revealed in the Question is a matter of great concern to the officers in the prison service who are working in Holloway prison? In no way should any blame be attached to the way in which they try to do their duties under great difficulties.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I have visited Holloway and I am well aware of that fact. I, too, should like to express my thanks for the work that they do. It is very difficult, and some of the people with whom they deal are extremely disturbed.

§ Lord Hutchinson of Lullington
My Lords, may I ask one more question? Can the noble Lord confirm that 90 per cent. of the women in this unit are on remand and that 60 per cent. of that 90 per cent. will not be sent to prison or may not be convicted? To incarcerate such people in solitary confinement day after day is something that the Minister should be more concerned about than he appears at present. Surely something should be done forthwith to get these women into a situation where they can enjoy the 1095 privileges to which they are entitled as remand prisoners, which at the moment they do not receive at all.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord feels that I do not express concern, because I most certainly do. As I have just indicated to the noble Baroness, Lady Lockwood, the fact is that staffing levels are being urgently examined so that we can provide a full range of facilities and also provide appropriate and adequate psychiatric treatment, therapy and nursing care. However, as the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, indicated, there are those people who do not fall within the scope of the Mental Health Act and might not fall within the scope of the prison service.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, may I ask one more question relating to the Holloway project report? In view of the fact that there was a DHSS representative sitting on this committee, were there any proposals made by that department, the DHSS, for setting up units to assess mentally disturbed women as an alternative to the facilities in Holloway?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, all features of the report will be looked at most carefully, and the DHSS will certainly be consulted on matters in which they are involved.