DoE-Local Government Consultations (Hansard, 12 July 1985)

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Elton)
My Lords, my right honourable friend will meet the leaders of the Association of Metropolitan Authorities and the Association of London Authorities on 23rd July, when he chairs the next meeting of the consultative council on local government finance. The agenda has not yet been finally decided.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that the information regarding the next statutory meeting is well known? Is he further aware that last week, as a matter of the utmost urgency, the leader of the AMA and the leader of the ALA asked for a meeting as quickly as possible, even against the background of that statutory meeting? I understand that the letter was sent last week and that no response has yet been received. Will the Minister accept from me that the purpose of this Question is benign and not malignant? We are recognising that at the end of a very difficult period of rate capping or rate setting there is an urgency to begin the dialogue as quickly as possible. In view of what has been said in the press lately regarding the possibility of changes in finance, would the Minister not agree that there is great urgency in this matter? I would simply ask him to ask his right honourable friend to respond to the initiative taken last week.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his Question because in fact I can discover no trace of such a letter having been received in the department.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, will my, noble friend, or at least his right honourable friend, when he 427 meets the association of London boroughs, suggest that the two London associations had better once again amalgamate?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, if the two associations in question wish to see the Secretary of State about matters arising from the abolition of the GLC and the metropolitan county councils as a matter of urgency, my right honourable friend would welcome that letter even more than the one that has been described.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that there have been complaints, particularly from the AMA, about the inadequacy of some of the discussions at recent meetings of the consultative council. Will the noble Lord bear that in mind and also the fact, in view of the important point raised by my noble friend Lord Graham, that there is need for this other meeting urgently to discuss the points that he mentioned?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the matter in question, I take it, is the matter of rate support grant penalties in particular. The issue was fully discussed at the last CCLGF meeting on 17th April and also in separate correspondence between my right honourable friend and the leaders of the AMA and the ALA. However, my right honourable friend has recently made it clear to the leader of the AMA that he is ready to discuss the matter further. Obviously the association can raise it on 23rd July if they wish, or at a separate meeting.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord; but I am also surprised and disturbed at the advice he has given the House. I am sure he will appreciate that I shall make urgent inquiries regarding the letter which I understand was sent last week and of which he says the department has no trace.
May I draw attention to the Freudian slip just committed by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, because there is a London Boroughs Association and an Association of London Authorities? The noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, referred to the Association of London Boroughs. Of course, that could very well be a new title if the two bodies were to get back together again. So far as I am concerned, there is an anxiety to represent the best interests of the people of London. So far as the AMA and ALA are concerned, there are urgent matters that literally cannot wait for two weeks. Can I ask the Minister, if the original letter can be traced or if a copy is sent, to use his best offices to expedite an early meeting with the two associations?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, not having seen the letter, I think the best I can do is to promise an early answer to any copy that may be sent.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord opposite for assuming the role of the late Doctor Freud, may I ask my noble friend whether it was not perfectly clear to him—as I think it was to the House—that I was seeking to invite his attention to the ridiculous situation in which in London the London boroughs are in two separate and rival associations 428 and that they ought to be in one, particularly in view of the changes now taking place?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, this unfortunate division had indeed come to my notice, and my noble friend now gives me the opportunity to say again that I hope the division will be brought to a speedy end.