Nuclear Power Programme (Hansard, 11 July 1985)

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Gray of Contin)
My Lords, the ordering of nuclear power stations beyond those currently under construction and hence the proportion of nuclear generated electricity will depend largely on the outcome of the Sizewell Inquiry

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is that not a totally unsatisfactory Answer? Bearing in mind the speculation which has been rife over the last two or three weeks about the nuclear power programme, anything up to 12 nuclear power stations have been envisaged by the turn of the century and figures given to the Nuclear Energy Agency imply that 43 per cent. of electricity will be generated by nuclear power by the year 2000. Those are the projections which have been given to the agency. Can the noble Lord say why it is that Parliament and the people cannot be given similar projections? Can I also ask the noble Lord—

§ Lord Denham
No, my Lords.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
Yes, my Lords, this is an important question. I am usually very short in my questions, but I have a further question to ask and I hope the Chief Whip will allow me to ask it.
Does the Minister not agree that there is an urgent need for a long-term energy strategy and a properly thought-out energy policy for the next two decades? Will he press his right honourable friend the Secretary of State to produce a White Paper or a Green Paper on energy, so that Parliament and the country can properly and rationally discuss this policy, into the next century?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I do not think that there has ever been any difficulty about Parliament having the opportunity to discuss energy policy. Energy has been a popular subject in both Houses, and has received a fair share of their attention. The Government cannot be held responsible for journalistic speculation and it is not unusual for articles to appear in the press giving particular views as to the amount of generation which we might have by the end of the decade or the end of the century from nuclear power or from any other source of power. The Government cannot be held responsible for these speculations. I have stated in my Answer that much will depend on the outcome of the Sizewell inquiry. The inspector at the inquiry has heard evidence on the merits, for example, of the AGR system. We shall have to wait and see what conclusions he draws in his report in due course. It would he inappropriate for me to comment at this stage.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend say when we will get this report and, having got it, how long the Government will take studying it and making up their mind? Is he aware that there is a real anxiety in many quarters that we are going to run out of generating capacity within the next 15 years unless replacement is put in hand now?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, as my noble friend is aware the inquiry closed on 7th March. The timing of the report is a matter for the inspector. However, the inspector has informed my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Energy that he hopes to be able to deliver his main recommendations before the end of this year.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, will not the Minister agree that the level of ordering of plant, whether nuclear or conventional, depends also on what is the expected maximum simultaneous demand in the year 2005 when plant ordered up to the end of century may come into commission? Do the Government now have up-to-date estimates of the rate of increase of maximum simultaneous demand and is any new plant required over the period covered by the Question?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, the Government have made clear their endorsement of the CEGB's proposal that the pressurised water reactor should be established as a valid option for the United Kingdom and that the next nuclear power station order should, subject to the necessary clearance consents and safety 320 clearances, be a PWR. The CEGB's case for building a PWR is being examined by the Sizewell inquiry. The inspector has heard the evidence on alternative reactor systems, and the decisions as to when or how many future stations may be built will depend on the result of the inquiry. At this time, it is not possible to give an accurate answer to the supplementary question that the noble Lord has raised.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, could the noble Lord confirm that, whatever may eventually transpire, the question of building 12 new nuclear power stations over 15 years is quite beyond the capacity of the industry, and the suggestion that we are going to do so must be nonsensical?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, it may be nonsensical, as the noble Earl suggests, but it has not been made by the Government.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, can the noble Lord give some indication to the House as to whether the Government have any plans for the closure of uneconomic nuclear generating plants?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I am afraid that this supplementary question goes rather wide of the Question which has been tabled. I feel that when one is answering from the Dispatch Box one must draw the line somewhere. If the noble Lord cares to put down a Question to that effect I shall do my best to answer it.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, in the meantime, would the noble Lord tell us what the Government are doing to try to stimulate the improvement and the efficiency of coal-fired power stations, bearing in mind that coal represents our largest source of primary energy in this country? Furthermore, what is being done to complete the investigations into pressurised fluid combustion which will enable coal to be used with the minimum of pollutants?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, rightly points out, coal plays a major role in the generation of electricity, and will continue to do so for many years. However, it is prudent for the country to have a range of supply options and I do not think that that has ever been brought home quite so forcefully and forcibly as it was earlier this year.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend add one other thing to what he has said? In view of his references in his answers to the AGR, can he assure the House that the Government will not allow AGR technology to die?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I can assure my noble friend that the Government would be sad if AGR technology were to die. The Government are open minded on the question of the AGR. As I indicated earlier, the Government believe that a range of options must be maintained.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that we are aware that the Government have not said that they are going to build 12 nuclear power stations but that their projections have fuelled 321 this speculation? What I am asking for is some proper information to Parliament and to the country to enable us to see exactly what the Government are up to.

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, the noble Lord really does speak as though there were some great secret plot—

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
There is, my Lords.

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I can assure him that there is no secret plot and that we shall continue to give as forthright and as forthcoming answers to his questions as we always do.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, will the noble Lord be good enough to read the answer he gave to my supplementary question earlier and, if he agrees, having done so, that he did not answer me, will he write to me in due course?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I am always very happy to write to the noble Lord.

§ Lord Ferrier
My Lords, will the noble Lord agree that to ordinary people like myself the important thing is that our fuel arrangements should be such that never again—I repeat, never again—should the country be held to ransom by the coal miners?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, my noble friend is correct. Indeed, I have already suggested that it is the Government's intention to keep a range of options open; and we certainly shall.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he recalls that on two occasions he made reference to "PWRs"? What is a PWR? Can I buy one anywhere?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, it is a pressurised water reactor.