HL Deb 10 July 1985 vol 466 cc187-8

2.43 p.m.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to introduce legislation to implement the Thorpe Report on allotment gardens during the present Parliament.

Lord Skelmersdale

No, my Lords.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is a very poor Answer for the £100 which I understand it costs for a Question? I nearly asked for my money back. Is the noble Lord aware that that Answer is not good enough? Several successive Governments have promised to bring in comprehensive legislation based on the Thorpe Report. Is he further aware that I have in my possession a letter dated April 1980 in which the Department of the Environment said that, following the Minister's statement in Committee, it was considering introducing, in the future, a comprehensive Bill on recreational gardening"? Is the noble Lord further aware that, apart from whatever he may have in mind over the Thorpe Report, it is necessary at the present time to introduce some consolidation of the present allotments law, which at the moment is antediluvian in character and needs to be brought up to date?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I answered the Question on the Order Paper. In regard to the Department of the Environment's letter to which the noble Lord referred, I should point out that my right honourable friend the then Minister of State at the Department of the Environment said on 12th February 1980: This reforming, radical Government is looking at it"— meaning legislation on the Thorpe Report— but I cannot give any commitment upon it. We have looked at it and we have decided that it is not appropriate for modern times.

Lord Graham of Edmonton

My Lords, can the Minister be a litttle more positive than that? Does the Minister not recall that when the Bill of my noble friend Lord Wallace of Coslany left this place it was blocked in the other place by the Government's spokesman doing what he was entitled to do—that is, object to the Bill being read a second time? Will the Minister reflect on the value to millions of people who will be able to take part in, and extend their ability to enjoy, their recreation if some progress is made and some legislation brought forward? There is a great need for more food to be grown in this country, as well as for enhancing the opportunities for ordinary people—who may well be confined to high-rise developments—to enjoy a little recreation on their own allotment.

Lord Skelmersdale

Yes, my Lords. I agree with the background to the supplementary question provided by the noble Lord, Lord Graham, but I always made it clear on behalf of the Government that recreational gardening is a matter for education and not for legislation.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, further to the noble Lord's reply to me when he quoted from the Minister, can he assure me that the Government have not given up any idea of being radical and reforming, or have they just packed it in?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, since we have just been through in this House a local government measure taking up several weeks of your Lordships' time, I would regard that as both radical and reforming.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he recalls referring to a reforming, radical Government? May I further ask him what right he has to speak on behalf of a previous Labour Government?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I was not aware that on 12th February 1980 the Government of this country were a Labour Government. It was that Government to whom I was referring.