§ 8.25 p.m.
Baroness VickersMy Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now further considered after Third Reading.
§ Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
1381§ The Deputy Speaker (Lord Aylestone)My Lords, in calling Amendment No. 1, I should remind your Lordships that the debate on it was adjourned at the previous Sitting pursuant to Standing Order No. 55. Unless, therefore, any noble Lord wishes to continue the debate I shall now put the Question.
§ Clause 1 [Persistent soliciting of women from motor vehicles for the purpose of prostitution]:
§
Baroness Vickers moved Amendment No. 1:
Page 1, line 6, leave out from ("(1)") to end of line 7 and insert ("A man commits an offence if he solicits a woman (or different women) for the purpose of prostitution—").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ The Deputy SpeakerAmendment No. 2. I should point out that if this amendment is carried Amendments Nos. 3 and 4 cannot be moved.
§
Lord Kilbracken had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 2:
Page 1, line 6, leave out ("persistently to solicit a woman") and insert ("to solicit a woman persistently").
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I have five amendments put down, but in view of Amendment No. 1 being carried, as I read it Amendments Nos. 2 and 3 cannot be moved, and Amendments Nos. 4, 5 and 6 do not make sense.
§ Amendment No. 3: Page 1, line 7, after ("woman") insert ("in a street or public place").
§ Amendment No. 4: Page 1, line 8, leave out ("while it is in a street or public place").
§ Amendment No. 5: Page 1, line 10, leave out ("in a street or public place while") and insert ("when").
§ Amendment No. 6: Page 1, line 10, leave out from ("while") to the end of line 11 and insert ("having just got out of or off a motor vehicle, if he is still in its immediate vicinity.").
§ Therefore, I feel that any obligation that I may have been under to speak on these amendments I have now "got out of or off". I therefore do not move these amendments.
§ [Amendment Nos. 2 to 6 not moved.]
§
Baroness Vickers moved Amendment No. 7:
Page 1, line 11, at end insert ("persistently or, subject to section 5(5A) below, in such manner or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause annoyance to the woman (or any of the women) solicited, or nuisance to other persons in the neighbourhood.").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§
Lord Monson had given notice of his intention to move amendment No. 8:
Leave out ("or nuisance") and insert ("or serious nuisance").
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, in view of the constraints of time I do not propose to move Amendments Nos. 8 or 9.
§ Amendment No. 9: Leave out ("in the neighbourhood") and insert ("in the immediate neighbourhood").
§ I would hope that the other place will consider our debates on the principles that these two amendments embody, and perhaps consider sending the Bill back to us incorporating one or other of these two amendments.
§ [Amendments Nos. 8 and 9 not moved.]
1382
§
Lord Monson had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 10:
Page 1, line 17, at end insert ("save that motor vehicles exceeding eight metres in length are hereby excluded.").
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I do not propose to move this amendment, but again I hope that the other place will consider the merits of it.
§ [Amendment No. 10 not moved.]
§
Lord Mishcon had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 11:
Leave out Clause 1.
§ Lord Elystan-MorganMy Lords, I formally move this amendment on behalf of my noble friend Lord Mishcon. I do not propose to address the House on this matter. I was not present at the debate last night. I apologise for that. I also apologise for the absence of my noble friend Lord Mishcon and my noble and learned friend Lord Silkin, who are both away from the House on different engagements and are sorry for their absence.
I take the view that the House has had the fullest opportunity of considering all the issues in a full debate on this matter last night, and for that reason I move this formally, as indeed I shall do in relation to Amendments Nos. 13 and 15. I beg to move.
§ On Question, amendment negatived.
§ Clause 2 [Persistent soliciting of women for the purpose of prostitution]:
§
Baroness Vickers moved Amendment No. 12:
Page 2, line 2, leave out ("women (or the same woman)") and insert ("a woman (or different women)").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§
Lord Elystan-Morgan moved Amendment No. 13:
Leave out Clause 2.
§ On Question, amendment negatived.
§ [Amendment No. 14 not moved.]
§
Lord Elystan-Morgan moved Amendment No. 15:
After Clause 2 insert the following new clause—
.—(1) A man commits an offence if in a street or public place he (whether from a motor vehicle or not) persistently solicits different women or the same woman for the purpose of prostitution.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (as defined in section 75 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982).
(3) In this section "motor vehicle" has the same meaning as in the Road Traffic Act 1972.
§ On Question, amendment negatived.
§ Clause 3 [Penalties for certain sexual offences]:
§
Lord Monson had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 16:
Page 2, line 14, leave out ("Life") and insert ("14 years").
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, as a result of representations made to me I have decided not to move this widely supported amendment, but should 1383 like to put it on record that I have taken this decision under protest.
§ [Amendment No. 16 not moved.]
§ Clause 5 [Short title, consequential amendment, repeals, commencement and extent]:
§
Baroness Vickers moved Amendment No. 17:
Page 3, line 11, at end insert—
("(5A) In relation to anything done in any area at a time when section 3 of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985 (conduct of criminal proceedings by Director of Public Prosecutions) is not in force there, section 1(1) above shall have effect as if all the words after "persistently" were omitted.").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Moved, That the Bill do now pass—(Baroness Vickers)
§ Lord Houghton of SowerbyMy Lords, I undertook not to speak on the remainder of Third Reading and I have kept to that, but we can spare just a minute or two to consider the extraordinary position in which this House has been put and the way in which the co-operation of strong opponents of parts of the Bill has been given to ensure that the Bill shall have a passage to another place. I am not labouring the subject, but the sponsors of the Bill should recognise that a good deal of forbearance—indeed more than a good deal—has been exercised by those of us who hold very strong views about some parts of this Bill. I hope that that has been noted and will be noted elsewhere.
That is really all I have to say for my part, but I have co-operated in refraining from making the House appear more ridiculous than it was last night. In all the circumstances, we should accept some satisfaction that we have enabled a procedure on a Private Member's Bill to succeed where in the deserts of the matter it really should have failed. Those who are concerned with Private Members' Bills procedure in another place must take note of what has happened on this and on other Bills and let us have some fresh consideration of this part of our procedure.
§ Lord WigoderMy Lords, I hope it will wind up proceedings on this Bill if I say in one sentence how grateful the whole of your Lordships House is to the noble Baroness, Lady Vickers, for the way in which she has presented the various stages of this Bill.
§ Lord Elystan-MorganMy Lords, on behalf of those on these Benches, I associate myself fully with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Wigoder, in the well-deserved tribute he has paid to the noble Baroness, Lady Vickers.
§ Baroness CoxMy Lords, may I, on behalf of my noble friend the Minister, thank all who have contributed so much to this Bill? I join other noble Lords in congratulating and thanking my noble friend, Lady Vickers, for piloting this vessel through very stormy seas with unfailing grace and courtesy. I believe that not only those of us here now but those in other 1384 places, especially women in town and country, right across the country, will have cause for great gratitude to my noble friend.
Baroness VickersMy Lords, I should like to express my gratitude to all noble Lords for the time and consideration they have given to this Bill. I am duly thankful to all.
§ On Question, Bill passed, and returned to the Commons with amendments.