§ 2.47 p.m.
§ Baroness Fisher of RednalMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many replies they have received arising from public consultation upon the Wages Councils Green Paper.
§ The Minister Without Portfolio (Lord Young of Graffham)My Lords, I understand that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment has received 755 responses to the consultative paper on wages councils.
§ Baroness Fisher of RednalMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer although I would have been pleased if he had included in it the numbers of those supporting abolition and those against it. But from the submissions that have been put forward, is the Minister aware that large retailers, the National Farmers' Union and the Bow Group have gone for reform as against outright abolition? Has he any comments to make on that?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I do not believe that a serious consultative process would best be served by having a poll vote on the way in which the number of responses were received by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State. I also very much believe that there are a large number of different views within a consultative process. This is taking 953 time, as they must be considered, but before long I am sure that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education will have deliberated and will make an announcement.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, as the consultative process came to an end on 31st May, which is a month ago, can the noble Lord tell the House what proportion of the responses supported the ideas for reform set out in paragraphs 17, 18 and 19 of the consultative document?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamNo, my Lords. The period for the return ended at 31st May, and I have to tell your Lordships' House that some papers are still coming in. It would be unfair to disregard some that came out of time. My right honourable friend is reading all that come in, and I have no doubt that he will come to a decision before long.
§ Lord CollisonMy Lords, will the noble Lord tell us whether the Transport and General Workers' Union (Agricultural Section) have sent in a reply; and, if so, can he tell us what is their attitude?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, until a decision is reached I do not think I would be serving the whole process very well if I were to reveal either who did or who did not reply, or what their particular submissions were. They can easily be discovered from the body concerned.
§ Lord Taylor of BlackburnMy Lords, the Minister referred to his right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education. I should have thought that this would be a matter for the Department of Trade and Industry rather than for the Department of Education and Science.
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, to the best of my knowledge, I hope I said "Employment".
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I apologise to the House. I meant my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, I understand the Minister's difficulty in releasing at this time, when replies to the consultation paper are still being received, points of view on it. But is the Minister aware that the Select Committee on Employment in another place came to a decision on this matter some weeks ago in which they said that, while there was a case for reviewing such practices of long standing, they did not find any case for abolition, as some people were suggesting?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I am aware that the Select Committee in another place have made many pronouncements of late. I really believe that this process would best be served by letting my right honourable friend consider all the responses and then arrive at his decision.
§ Baroness Fisher of RednalMy Lords, if, when the report has been fully scrutinised, the Minister finds 954 that there is real evidence that wages councils have blocked job creation, will he give the House that information, if it is available, when he makes his submission?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I am sure that my right honourable friend will make an announcement after he has considered the matter. I will say only that my own experience, and that within the Manpower Services Commission, satisfies me that wage opportunities for young people have been blocked by wages councils. I refer specifically to young people.