§ 3.34 p.m.
§ Lord GrimondMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they intend to take to associate workers, in those industries which are to remain nationalised, with the ownership and management of such industries.
§ The Minister without Portfolio (Lord Young of Graffham)My Lords, the Government will continue to encourage employee involvement in the nationalised industries as elsewhere. We believe that good employee involvement practices most suited to each organisation are best introduced on a voluntary basis by the management of the particular organisation, in conjunction with the employees and their representatives.
§ Lord GrimondMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that mildly encouraging Answer. May I ask him to be a little more specific? Would it not be a good thing, bearing in mind that industrial relations have not always been spectacularly improved by the present state of nationalisation, to encourage workers' co-operatives in some parts of the nationalised industries? Might it not even be a good thing to suggest to the miners that if they believe they can keep certain mines open to advantage, then they might try their hand at one or two of those mines?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I am not too sure that the present state of the coal industry has much to do with the state of worker or management involvement in that industry—
§ Lord Young of Graffham—in the form of co-operatives. Section 1 of the Employment Act 1982, which brought in the possibility of reporting on this position, does not apply to nationalised industries. At the moment, the Government are looking at the position to see how the initial reports which have been coming out for a year—reports by companies on involvement—are actually working through.
§ Lord RochesterMy Lords, does what the Minister has just said indicate that Her Majesty's Government take the view that there is as much—or more—need for action aimed at increasing employee involvement in its widest sense in the nationalised industries, and indeed in the public services, as in the private sector of industry?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, the Government are always interested in improving employee involvement in the management of industries be they in the nationalised industry sector or in the private sector. At the present time, Section 1 of the 1982 Act excludes nationalised industries, as it excludes companies with fewer than 250 employees and other types of organisations, such as building 1079 societies and parts of the public services. The Government will of course look at and monitor carefully the reports coming from existing private sector companies—larger companies—and the results of those reports.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, can the Minister be more specific about whether the Government intend to allow any companies to remain nationalised, bearing in mind their present policy of disposing of very valuable, publicly-owned assets? If the Government continue with that policy at the same speed, this whole question may become totally irrelevant in the near future.
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I am sure that your Lordships' House has taken note of the improvement in service and profits of such companies once forming nationalised industries but which have now moved back into the private sector.