§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will hold discussions with all associations representing medical staffs about the administration of the National Health Service.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, the Government already regularly discuss a wide range of administrative issues with associations representing medical staff in the National Health Service.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, in thanking the noble Minister for that reply, may I point out that what he has said is true but is he aware that, although these discussions are helpful, there is grave anxiety from surgeons right through to ancillary staff, nurses, midwives and junior doctors? Perhaps there should just be consultations, with no binding effects, between representatives of all the organisations within the NHS and DHSS representatives. That might help to allay some of the fears. These people have a right to make suggestions about how they think this great service could be improved.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I note what the noble Lord suggests, but a forum already exists and, additionally, the Joint Consultants Committee meets quarterly with the department. I think that essentially any change in the staff representation would be a matter on which the existing staff side should formulate coherent proposals for discussion.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, perhaps I may very respectfully point out that one—
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, may I, with respect, ask the Minister whether he is aware that one of the reasons why I put this Question was because of discussions with the BMA, CoHSE, NUPE and other organisations relating to young doctors and ancillary staff? They point out that such discussions would be helpful to try to stop what they consider to be a threat. For example, at Westminster Hospital the ophthalmic department will be abolished and transferred to Charing Cross Hospital; the provision for cardiac surgery, which has served Parliament so well, is 962 threatened; and the general emergency bed service is threatened at many other hospitals. They are afraid that the policy of the Government is in fact closing hospitals by amputation, and that this could be prevented by sensible discussion.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I cannot accept the noble Lord's assertions, which, to some extent, are scaremongering and unnecessary. The important thing, if the noble Lord wishes to take this forward, is for him and those whom he represents to have discussions through the existing machinery, which will no doubt consider carefully what he says.
§ Baroness Gardner of ParkesMy Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the whole purpose of the reorganisation of the health service in setting up district health authorities was to enable these bodies, who work close to the ground in these areas, to make these important decisions? If the Government intervene directly on all these matters it would become a centralisation measure.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I agree with my noble friend that these matters are often best discussed locally.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House how many general managers selected at local level have been vetoed by the Secretary of State?
§ Lord GlenarthurNo, my Lords. In any case, that is another question.