§ 3.1 p.m.
§ Lord Campbell of AllowayMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is the intention to implement the hope expressed by the Lord Chief Justice (Times Law Report, 6th December 1984) that the law relating to sentences of youth custody should be altered to enable them to he suspended in whole or in part.
§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)My Lords, the Government are examining this question. We have sought the views of a number of interested bodies, and my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is considering the comments that have been received.
§ Lord Campbell of AllowayMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for his reply. Might I ask him, pursuing perhaps the same line—I hope so—whether he is aware that the value of this sentencing option has been affirmed by judges and recorders attending the Roehampton judicial seminars in 1983 and 1984; and that again last week, with an attendance of about 100 there was unanimous support for the view of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lane? Is he also aware that unanimity is not exactly the order of the day at such seminars? Might I ask my noble friend the Minister whether perhaps appropriate amendments could be carried into the Administration of Justice Bill at the Committee stage to give effect to the concern of the judiciary?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I am aware that there is a weight of opinion that favours such a step. I am also aware that there is a weight of opinion against it. The Home Secretary, having taken the views, is now considering where the balance lies. I do not think I can say more than that at this stage; nor do I think I can commit the Government to a legislative move before we have decided in what direction it should be made.
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, but has not the power to suspend sentences of imprisonment been extremely helpful in a limited number of cases already?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I am so sorry; I missed the beginning of the noble and learned Lord's question.
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, the noble Lord was no doubt being helpfully interrupted. I was asking whether it is not the case that in a number of cases the suspending of sentences of imprisonment has proved to be very beneficial.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, in a number of cases no doubt it has, but we are looking at a particular class of case and my right honourable friend is at present considering the opinions on that class of case which have been put before him.
§ Lord WigoderMy Lords, may I ask who has expressed an opinion against it?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I have not seen all the opinions although I think there are over 20 of them at present under review. They are all being considered by my right honourable friend.
§ Lord Hutchinson of LullingtonMy Lords, does the Minister not agree that the criteria which were inserted in the Criminal Justice Act, which govern the circumstances in which custodial sentences can be imposed on young people, are simply not reconcilable with the concept of suspension? Would he not inform the Lord Chief Justice that in the case of a young person, if the mitigation is such that if he were an adult the whole sentence would be properly suspended, then a custodial sentence should not be passed at all? Moreover, if mitigation is such that it should be partially suspended, then the sentence should not be longer than the part which would be justifiably suspended.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, I am aware of the view which the noble Lord has so succinctly put before the House, and it is one which is before the Home Secretary at the moment.
§ Baroness Masham of IltonMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he agrees with me that now that borstal training has been replaced by youth custody, the emphasis is on custody? As many children aged 15 and 16 are being sent to youth custody, would he not agree that the emphasis for children should be more on training, schooling and rehabilitation? Would it not be better to keep them out of custody altogether, if possible?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, the principle that young people should be kept out of custody wherever possible is one which we have enshrined in statute in the first section of the Criminal Justice Act recently passed by this House. But the Question I have before me relates to whether or not we should implement a suggestion relating to the suspension of sentences of youth custody. I think my noble friend has strayed a little beyond that.
§ Baroness Masham of IltonMy Lords, with respect, that is what I meant to say—that suspended sentences might help to keep these young people out of youth custody, and therefore I support the Question put by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway.
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, it is the delicate business of my right honourable friend to weigh those considerations against the considerations put foward by the noble Lord, Lord Hutchinson of Lullington, and many others.
§ Lord MishconMy Lords, if the noble Lord the Minister cannot give the information asked for by the noble Lord, Lord Wigoder, in regard to who was opposing, can be at least indicate to the House the basis of the reasoning of those who oppose?
§ Lord EltonI would have thought not, my Lords, at this point of time, because this is meant to be a Parliamentary Question and not a debate on the subject. My right honourable friend is considering views put before him by different bodies who have given their own reasoning. I do not think that I can adduce the reasoning behind particular points of view in advance of the conclusion of my right honourable friend's considerations.
§ Lord MishconMy Lords, can the noble Lord the Minister at least indicate to the House, so that we can intelligently follow questions and answers, any reason which has been given in the body of opinion which is against? Can be give one reason as an example?
§ Lord EltonMy Lords, this has already been done, I think more ably than I could, by the noble Lord's noble friend Lord Hutchinson of Lullington.