HL Deb 20 February 1985 vol 460 cc572-4

3.2 p.m.

Baroness Carnegy of Lour

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how much aid the United Kingdom has received from the European Regional Fund since it was established in 1975.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Lucas of Chilworth)

My Lords, up to the end of 1984 the United Kingdom had been allocated £1,621 million from the main section of the European Regional Development Fund, and £122.5 million from the special measures section of the fund.

Baroness Carnegy of Lour

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. While the overall figures sound impressive, can he tell the House whether this represents a fair share for the United Kingdom, whether our share is rising or falling, and how much has come, and is expected to come, to Scotland in particular?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I think the figures represent a fair share of what is available. Up to the end of last year, our share was defined by council regulation as 23.8 per cent. of the quota section which comprises 95 per cent. of the fund. When the regulations were replaced in January this year, our maximum possible share was increased to 28.56 per cent. of the whole fund. In 1984 we received £371.7 million gross, of which Scotland received, or has been allocated but has not totally taken up, £93.1 million.

Lord Ross of Marnock

My Lords, will the noble Lord the Minister say how much we paid into this expensive organisation?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, we pay into the Community 1 per cent. of VAT. That is a variable level. The fund itself is determined by the Commission out of the total EEC budget, and that varies.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is it not true that, out of the £1.6 billion that the noble Lord has mentioned as being received by this country, no less than £1.25 billion has been paid by this country into the regional fund? Would it not have been rather less misleading to have coupled the original figure with that one? Is the noble Lord further aware that, after taking into account all receipts from the regional and social funds and all receipts into the United Kingdom from the EEC, this country's taxpayers contributed to the EEC during the same period over £5,000 million net?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, has, I suspect, unwittingly misled the House in that he has joined the regional fund and the social fund in his figuring. I have answered truthfully and honestly the Question about the regional fund, which was the Question on the Order Paper.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, as the figures have been challenged, may I refer the noble Lord to Hansard of another place, which deals exhaustively with this matter at column 805 of the Official Report for 24th October?

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, will the noble Lord say whether this is additional money going to the regions of Britain or whether the Government simply deduct it from the money that they themselves would have provided?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, this is additional money. What lies behind the noble Lord's question is, I suggest, well known and well worn (and, if I may also suggest, ill-informed) criticism.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the figures I have given to your Lordships' House are taken from the Government's own statistics in this matter? Is he willing to repudiate the figures provided by his own department?

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I do not think that there is any question of my having to repudiate any figures at all. I answered questions with regard to the regional development fund, not the regional fund and the social fund, which were the figures that the noble Lord gave.