§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government why since 1979 the proportion of GNP they devote to overseas aid has fallen to half the minimum figure of 0.7 per cent. recommended by the United Nations and whether they will increase the amount during the coming year to not less than the minimum recommended.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)My Lords, it has not been possible to exempt aid from the general need to control public expenditure. At 0.35 per cent. of GNP our aid performance was close to the average for all Western donors. Progress towards the 0.7 per cent. target will depend upon developments in the economy and other claims on resources.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, the Government have for years said that the economy is recovering; so why is aid not being included in their success? Instead of that the proportion of GNP going towards aid is declining compared with that in countries such as the Netherlands and France, which have reached the United Nations target. Can the Government not do better than this?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, our recent performance has been very close to the OECD donor average. It is true that of the major donors we are below France and Germany, but we are ahead of the United States, Japan and Italy.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, does the noble Baroness the Minister agree with her colleague Lord Belstead, who on 23rd May last year told the House that British overseas aid was directly linked to British overseas trade? If she agrees with the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, is it not obvious that a reduction in aid such as the Government have executed over these five years leads to a direct reduction in British overseas trade, thereby damaging the British economy and increasing unemployment?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am not prepared to comment on a quotation from my noble friend Lord Belstead of which I have not had notice, and I do not have the entire statement in front of me. I should like to say to the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, that there is some benefit to trade from aid and we believe in supporting British industry where we can in our aid projects.
Lord OramMy Lords, when the Minister says that Britain is close to other European donors, does she not mean that we are close to those who are at the bottom? Do not the figures from the Development Assistance Committee of OECD reveal that whereas during the 1970s we were well placed compared with other European donors, last year we were bottom? It may be that we have crept just above Italy, but we are very much at the bottom of the league table.
§ Baroness YoungNo, my Lords; in absolute terms we have the fifth largest programme and, within the European Community, the third largest.
§ Lord BauerMy Lords, should not the scale of our aid programme depend on its efficacy, the needs of third world people, and the conduct of recipient governments, rather than on a completely arbitrary figure plucked from the air several decades ago?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, there may be a lot of truth in what my noble friend Lord Bauer says in his supplementary question, but I suspect that that point would be better dealt with in a general debate. As it is, the Question relates to a target which has been established by the United Nations.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, can the noble Baroness explain why the Government advocate the topping-up of IDA and at the same time seem to be against the World Bank programme?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the issue of the World Bank facility is another question. The noble Lord's noble friend Lord Oram has down a Question on that subject for Thursday, when I will try to answer it.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, does the noble Baroness agree at least with the thesis that aid is connected with trade? Will she answer the second part of my first supplementary question as to whether the reduction in overseas aid does not necessarily mean that there will therefore be a reduction in British overseas trade?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am not prepared to follow that line of reasoning propounded by the noble Lord, Lord Hatch. As I indicated in my earlier answer to him, I can say that we are committed to the United Nations' target, but, like the previous Government, we are not yet prepared to set a date for achieving it.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, I must ask the noble Baroness not to be dismissive of my question and not to refer me to some other Question on Thursday. My question is perfectly relevant to the Question on the Order Paper and I again ask her to answer it. Why do the Government favour IDA, but not the World Bank programme? Will she be good enough to answer that now, please?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I did not mean any discourtesy to the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn. There is a Question down on the Order Paper for Thursday concerning the World Bank special facility. If I may say so, the IDA facility is too wide of the present Question.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, will the noble Baroness be good enough to address her mind to this point? Since the Government's aid is apparently severely limited, why do they direct so much of it to countries such as Turkey, which has an appalling record on human rights, but which nonetheless has received £20 million in aid over the last two years? The Foreign Secretary is apparently having talks there at the moment. Does he intend to raise the question of human rights while he is in Ankara?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the whole matter of my right honourable friend's visit to Turkey is quite wide of the Question; but as a matter of fact about two-thirds of our bilateral aid goes to sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian sub-continent, and £26 million has been allocated in aid to Ethiopia.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, I should like to have a little clarification, if I may, on this point. In giving aid do the Government pay any consideration to the human rights records of the countries in receipt of it? That is the point I am trying to make. Turkey's record is very bad.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the Government's position on the violation of human rights is quite clear. We have deplored such violations wherever they have occurred.