HL Deb 04 February 1985 vol 459 cc831-3

2.56 p.m.

Baroness Cox

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of reports of interference with the administration of Inner London polytechnics by the Inner London Education Authority (ILEA), they will consider sympathetically the request by the Association of Polytechnic Teachers for an independent external inquiry into the ILEA's role in the operation of public sector institutions of higher education.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science has agreed to the request from the Association of Polytechnic Teachers for a ministerial meeting at which they can explain the case for such an inquiry.

Baroness Cox

My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend the Minister for that very encouraging reply. May I draw his attention very briefly to three points which might be helpful?

Noble Lords

No!

Baroness Cox

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the director of the Polytechnic of North London resigned his post largely because of pressures from the Inner London Education Authority to act in ways which he was led to believe could bring him into contempt of court? Is my noble friend also aware that the court of governors of the Polytechnic of North London had great pressure put on them by ILEA to appoint the director of the Polytechnic of the South Bank, although that was contravening their own articles of association? Finally, is my noble friend aware that there are very many staff in the Polytechnic of North London who are deeply worried about what has happened but who are afraid of victimisation if they make their views known to a committee of inquiry set up and serviced by ILEA?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I was aware of the subject-matter of the first supplementary question which my noble friend asked. I understand the allegation to be that Mrs. Morrell pressed Dr. MacDowall to take action against the National Front organiser Patrick Harrington under the polytechnic's disciplinary code, and that he thought such action might place him in contempt of court. Mrs. Morrell has subsequently stated categorically that she had never proposed that Dr. MacDowall should take action in breach of the law and that, in relation to the affairs of the polytechnic, she had always acted on the advice of ILEA's education officer and legal officers.

I was not aware of the subject-matter of the second supplementary question which my noble friend asked. I shall bring it to the attention of my right honourable friend. As regards the third supplementary question, about giving evidence to an inquiry, I hope that witnesses will not be put off because I understand that it is a very independent inquiry.

Baroness David

My Lords, does the noble Earl consider that, if the Government set up their own inquiry, it could match the quality of the people whom ILEA has found to conduct its own external inquiry into the Polytechnic of North London—the inquiry led by the ex-chief of HMI, Miss Sheila Browne—or, indeed, its independence? Are the Government prepared to accept the findings of this independent inquiry when it reports?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I cannot categorically say that the Government will accept the findings. On the other hand, I would agree with what the noble Baroness said about the impartiality and the excellence of the people who have been chosen to carry out this inquiry.

Lord Annan

My Lords, would not the noble Earl's answer to the question asked by my noble friend Lady David depend partly on the terms of reference of the inquiry which is to be carried out under the chairmanship of the principal of Newnham College? Does the noble Earl know whether those terms of reference will include a review of the conduct and record of the ILEA representatives on the governing body during the past 10 years, when they have not always been helpful to the director of the polytechnic in maintaining discipline? Finally, I wonder whether the noble Earl would agree with Lady Bracknell, that to lose one director for trying to maintain discipline in the polytechnic is likely to be a misfortune, but that to lose two for the same reason really looks like recklessness?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, if I did not give as long as long an answer as perhaps I might have done to my noble friend Lady Cox it was because she put an enormously long list of supplementaries and it might have tried the patience of your Lordships' House. So far as the inquiry being set up into the Polytechnic of North London is concerned, my understanding is that that inquiry, which I again say I am fully confident is an independent one, will have discretion to look into all matters relevant to the work of the Polytechnic of North London.