§ 3.15 p.m.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made in establishing fresh talks with the PLO and relevant Middle East governments.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)My Lords, my honourable friend the Minister of State will be holding talks with representatives of the Syrian, Lebanese and Israeli governments, and with Palestinians resident in the occupied territories, during his current visit to the Middle East.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that that is a most encouraging reply? I am deeply grateful for it and I think all people with interests in the Middle East and the re-establishment of peace there will also welcome it. May I ask the noble Baroness whether she is further aware that in many parts of the Middle East and in the Gulf States there is still great regard, honour and respect for the United Kingdom, from our ante- and post-colonial period, and that this country is held in much higher respect than either of the so-called super powers. Is she aware that therefore we have a special role? I am very pleased the initiative has been taken, as I believe that it is this nation that can establish peace in the Middle East.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I note what the noble Lord has said.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, we welcome the announcement made by the noble Baroness about the visit to the Middle East by her honourable friend. Can she say whether the Middle East crisis was on the agenda of the talks between President Reagan and Mr. Gorbachev at Geneva, and, if so, whether any future arrangements were made for formal talks on this crucial subject? Can she say further whether Her Majesty's Government have been consulted on this matter by the United States Government?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I cannot say that the Middle East was specifically an agenda item. I should have expected that in the course of their discussions they would have talked about the Middle East. However, I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, that we keep closely in touch with the United States over this matter because we recognise that the United States has a special role because of her close links to parties on both sides of the dispute.
§ Lord GladwynMy Lords, will not the noble Baroness nevertheless agree that progress towards a settlement in the Middle East is unlikely until such time as the Americans and the Russians get together and once again summon a conference in Geneva under their joint chairmanship?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, yes, I accept the importance of the role particularly of the United States 347 in the Middle East, in order to make some progress in this intractable problem.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonMy Lords, I had some difficulty in hearing the Answer of the noble Baroness. I hope I am wrong in thinking that she said Her Majesty's Government had changed their policy and were now prepared to talk to assassins. I hope I am wrong in that.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Paget, is quite incorrect on anything which I said in answer to the original Question.
Viscount BuckmasterMy Lords, is it not agreed that the PLO consists of many different elements? Can the noble Baroness give the House some indication of the proportion of extremist and moderate elements in the PLO?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I cannot give an answer to the noble Lord's question, couched in the terms that it is. We do not accept that the PLO is the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people but we believe that they should be associated with negotiations.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there is no other organisation and that, like every other extremist organisation, it is born out of frustration? Is she further aware that when one travels through the Gulf and the Middle East, one finds there is much respect for this country and acknowledgement for the point of view that we have taken? I hope that we shall in no way be sycophantic to some elements of the United States administration which have looked at this whole question in such a biased manner. Like many others who have knowledge of the Middle East, I happen to believe that Great Britain can make a big contribution to securing peace in the Middle East, as I hope the noble Baroness will appreciate and understand.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I cannot accept the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, about the United States. However, perhaps it may be helpful to the House to add something further about the PLO. I think it is important to recognise that not all Palestinians support terrorism or the arms struggle and that it embraces a very wide cross-section of opinion.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonMy Lords, surely it is always a problem if one becomes involved in looking for graduated virtues among assassins.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I do not think that I would wish to follow the noble Lord, Lord Paget, down that philosophical path.