Part-Time Firemen (Hansard, 10 December 1985)

Baroness Sharpies
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Glenarthur)
My Lords, part-time firemen form an important part of our fire-fighting force. In order to build up their numbers we launched in September new publicity literature about the part-time service to help fire authorities in local recruitment.

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. May I ask him how successful this campaign has been? Are both sexes allowed to apply? Are employers being helpful, because would my noble friend confirm that part-time firemen are in fact on call 24 hours a day for 365 days in the year?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I think we shall have to await the results of the exercise first, and when the Chief Inspector's report is published we should be able to give figures on how successful it has been by the spring of next year. I can assure my noble friend that both men and women are eligible, though obviously they have to match up to the necessary requirements of strength and that sort of thing. The whole idea is to encourage employers to let their people take part. My noble friend is quite right when she points out that the availability of part-timers is far greater than that of the whole-time men.

§ Baroness Macleod of Borve
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend the Minister the shortfall of man/woman power in the fire service?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am not sure whether my noble friend is asking about part-timers or full-timers. I can tell her that the part-time firemen make up about one third, 16,144 as against 34,516 full-time 107 fire fighters, and it would be impossible to give a breakdown of the actual shortage because it depends so much on the individual authorities and their own particular needs.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, I appreciate the importance of part-time firemen in many areas, but could the Minister say whether the increase in part-time firemen in some areas is due to the financial stringency of some of the fire authorities? Have any representations been made by fire authorities on the difficulty of keeping up their strength of fire cover? Have representations been made by the Fire Brigades Union on the same matter?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the rural areas do not necessarily require the same level of attendance as would be warranted by attendance of full-time firemen. Certainly representations are made on a variety of issues and are fully taken account of.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, I asked that question because I was a member of the National Fire Service, and I am rather concerned that we should not have an increase in part-time firemen in areas where there ought to be an adequate full-time strength.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, we have to maintain a cost-effective fire service and there is no suggestion that part-time firemen are any less efficient than full-timers. The fact is that in rural areas there is no need to have full-time people employed for the length of period for which they are normally used. We have to bear in mind the needs of the service as a whole. I assure the noble Lord that there is no need for him to worry on safety on this score.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that it would be a mistake to underestimate the need for part-time firemen in the rural areas, especially in summer time? Is he aware that fires occur throughout the rural areas of Great Britain in summer time and that the need for firemen at short notice is apparent to all who live in the rural areas?

§ Lord Glenarthur
Yes, my Lords, but the part-timers are able to respond within the four minutes that are required of full-timers.

§ Lord Somers
My Lords, are there any provisions for making sure that fires do not break out when part-timers are not on duty?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, should a fire break out, then the part-timers will cope with it adequately.