HL Deb 05 December 1985 vol 468 cc1404-6

3.11 p.m.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the average reduction in their overseas aid in real terms over the past six years and how this compares with the figures for the rest of the OECD.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)

My Lords, OECD aid statistics mix amounts actually spent and, for certain forms of multilateral aid, funds committed. As a result they do not necessarily reflect aid expenditure in any one year. On OECD calculations, net aid from OECD countries taken together increased by 3.9 per cent. a year in real terms between 1978 and 1984, while British net aid fell by 4.2 per cent. But in terms of expenditure in real terms British aid fell by 0.5 per cent. a year over the same period.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, is it not the case that according to the OECD figures British committed aid over that six-year period fell by 6 per cent. annually whereas that of the OECD Development Assistance Committee members increased by an average of around 4 per cent.?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I have given the precise figures in the Answer to the noble Lord's original Question. What is very important, I believe, is to look and see what happened in spending terms, which shows that the decline is much smaller—only 0.5 per cent.

Lord Orr-Ewing

My Lords, will my noble friend not agree that sometimes it is not the actual amount that matters but the effectiveness of those sums? Did not the government of Ethiopia in the years from 1978 to 1982 receive 1 billion dollars of aid from the West and from the United Kingdom, and did not the Sudan in the same period get 2.5 billion dollars? Can we be assured that those huge sums do get down so that the poorest are substantially helped and not other areas that are less deserving?

Baroness Young

My noble friend makes a most important point. We always try to see that British aid is well targeted and well spent.

Lord Oram

My Lords, do not the DAC figures, to which the noble Baroness referred, show that Britain is very much the worst performer in aid terms in comparison with all the other members of the OECD? For instance, Italy has a positive record over the last six years of some 8 per cent., France 7.5 per cent. and Germany 8 per cent., whereas our performance has been negative. We have been declining, whereas they have been impressively increasing their aid programmes.

Baroness Young

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Oram, takes the statistics which he has used from the recently published table of OECD aid expenditure. But of course if we look at our aid performance as a percentage of GNP in absolute terms we have the sixth largest aid programme and within the European Community the third largest.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, is it not the case that only two other members of the OECD Development Committee reduced their aid over this six-year period by minuscule amounts, whereas ours was declining by 6 per cent. a year? Would the noble Baroness not agree in relation to her last figure that aid provided by this Government currently reaches only 0.33 per cent. of our GDP, whereas when this Government came into office it was 0.49 per cent.?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the statistics that the noble Lord gave in the first part of his supplementary question from the OECD table are correct. But the noble Lord should know that the increases which have been announced for the aid programme in the coming three years more than maintain the real value of our aid programme and are considerable sums of money.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

Can the noble Baroness the Minister expand on the answer she gave to her noble friend Lord Orr-Ewing and tell us what practical steps the British Government are taking to see that the money given is properly spent?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware of these from the published reports from the Overseas Development Administration, from the Statements made by my right honourable friend Mr. Raison, and from the answers given to a number of specific questions.

Baroness Macleod of Borve

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that a great number of people go out from these shores to help under this particular organisation, and that the quality of the people going out is remarkably high?

Baroness Young

My Lords, yes. A great deal of our aid money goes on technical co-operation schemes. The point that my noble friend makes is a very valid one. What is important is what is achieved with the money.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, will the noble Baroness answer the second part of my second supplementary question? Will she confirm that the Government are presently allocating no more than 0.33 per cent. of our GDP, whereas the figure was 0 49 per cent. when this Government came into office in 1979?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I can confirm that in 1984 we were spending 0.33 per cent. of our GDP on overseas aid. But, as I have already indicated to the noble Lord, we have made increases which will more than maintain the real value of the programme.