Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they have taken to conform with paragraph 6(3)(b) of the Commonwealth Conference communique of 21st October relating to the precluding of the importation of krugerrands into the United Kingdom; and from what date was the sale of krugerrands by importers to the public prohibited.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Lucas of Chilworth)My Lords, the Commonwealth Conference communique referred to a readiness to take unilaterally what action may be possible to preclude the imports of krugerrands. We are considering what action may be possible consistent with the United Kingdom's wider international obligations.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the public at large were given to understand that there would be a prohibition on the importation of krugerrands? Can the noble Lord give some indication as to how many krugerrands—or the total value of them—have been imported into this country since 21st October, which was the date of the communique?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthNo, my Lords, I cannot because we do not monitor to that fineness of date.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, does the noble Lord not agree, in those circumstances, that the effort made by his right honourable friend the Prime Minister to impose even a featherweight restriction on the state of South Africa in disapproval of apartheid—even that faint irritation—has apparently now been removed and the Government have no intention of carrying out their originally expressed intention?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, the noble Lord opposite will recognise that we have of course other international obligations to which we have to give consideration before we can reach a decision with regard to the banning or otherwise of krugerrands.
§ Lord BottomleyMy Lords, can the Minister say that the action of the Government will be consistent with that taken by other Commonwealth governments?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I am sure that the actions of other Commonwealth countries will have a bearing upon our consideration of the matters to which the Question refers.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, how long will it be before the noble Lord can give a direct answer? We were certainly under the impression—and I think the country as a whole was under the impression—that the banning of the purchase of krugerrands would come about very quickly.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I cannot answer for the impressions that may have been accepted by other people. The communique is quite clear. Paragraph 6(3)(b) states:
A readiness to take unilaterally what action may be possible to preclude the import of krugerrands.There is in that paragraph of the communique no undertaking to preclude the import of krugerrands.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, will the noble Lord at least do the noble Baroness, Lady Seear, the courtesy of answering her question? How long will the Government be considering this matter before they arrive at a decision? Is the noble Lord aware that the answer of the Government as purveyed by himself represents another way of wriggling out of the whole issue?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord opposite appreciates that I cannot put a timescale on the consideration of this matter since we are in touch with our Commonwealth colleagues. We also have to consider, as I suggested earlier, our international obligations. One cannot transcend the other. As regards the noble Lord's last point, there is no question of Her Majesty's Government wriggling out of any obligation which they have entered into.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, does not the noble Lord's repetition of the part in the communique which said that the Government will do whatever is possible to preclude the import of krugerrands, coupled with the fact that the Government have not precluded the import of krugerrands, point to the conclusion that the Government hold it impossible to preclude the import of krugerrands?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, we do not know at this moment whether it is impossible consistent with our international obligations.