HL Deb 24 October 1984 vol 456 cc213-9

There were three meetings of the Foreign Affairs Council during the summer recess. That on 2nd and 3rd September, at which my honourable friend the Minister of State represented the United Kingdom, dealt exclusively with the negotiations for Portuguese and Spanish accession which I covered in my Statement to the House earlier today. At the other two Councils, on 17th and 18th September and 2nd and 3rd October, I represented the United Kingdom accompanied by my right honourable friend the Minister of Overseas Development. My right honourable friend the Minister for Trade was present at the 17th and 18th September meeting. My right honourable friend the Minister of State attended the 2nd and 3rd October meeting.

At both councils Ministers discussed the negotiations on a successor to the second Lomé Convention, in preparation for the EC/ACP Ministerial Negotiating Conference which was subsequently held in Brussels from 9th to 12th October. Negotiations between the Community and the ACP countries are continuing.

The 17th and 18th September Council adopted the regulation on the strengthening of the common commercial policy. This improves the Community's ability to respond to illicit trading practices by third countries, in a manner consistent with the Community's existing international obligations. The council also adopted the long-delayed package of 15 directives laying down common standards for a range of industrial products. Her Majesty's Government welcome this useful step in opening up the internal market.

At the September meeting we drew attention to the need for a further supplement to the 1984 duty-free newsprint quota sufficient to meet the requirements of Community users to the end of the year. This has now been agreed. There was also discussion of Portuguese demands for greater access this year for her textile exports. The Commission stressed the urgency of a new agreement with Portugal. The Council considered the problem of the famine in Sub-Saharan Africa, especially Ethiopia. The Commission reported on what the Community has already done to help and undertook to assess what further action was required. As my honourable friend the Minister of State (Mr. Rifkind) told the House on 22nd October, the Community subsequently agreed to ship a further 35,000 tonnes of wheat to Ethiopia.

The 2nd and 3rd October Foreign Affairs Council agreed a strongly worded declaration, emphasising the Community's concern at the protectionist provisions in the Omnibus Trade Bill before the US Congress and the potentially serious consequences were they to be adopted. Many of the more objectionable provisions were eliminated or modified in the final version of the Bill.

On 22nd and 23rd October the Council approved the transfer of £37.8 million from the general budget of the communities to the European Coal and Steel Community in order to finance social measures to accompany restructuring of the steel industry. This follows previous allocations for this purpose in 1981–83 amounting to £127 million. The United Kingdom is a net beneficiary from the programme of social measures in the steel industry. The council confirmed the Commission's negotiating mandate for the 1985 voluntary restraint arrangements with major third country suppliers under the external steel regime. Ministers also agreed that accelerated Tokyo Round tariff cuts should be implemented on 1st January 1985 for a number of products of interest to developing countries.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for repeating the Statement, and I am of course very pleased that the negotiations on the entry of Spain and Portugal into the European Community appear now to be making some progress after the protracted meetings held during the summer. Earlier this month, we learnt about the agreement with Portugal regarding the level of permissible imported sugar cane, and today's press reports tell us that the Community are virtually prepared to receive Portugal.

Spain however appears to be a more complex problem. Will the noble Lord comment on this and say whether progress is being made on lifting restrictions over Gibraltar, because that, throughout the period, has seemed to be one of the main obstacles—an obstacle which we wish could be removed if the settlement was a fair one from the Gibraltese point of view. Does the noble Lord agree that the problems of the EEC budget have been only temporarily allayed? Even now they seem to be looming large, because we know that the agreed 1985 budget is too little and that demands for budgetary discipline, while giving rise to a good deal of debate, have not materialised into effective proposals as yet.

The Statement goes into some detail about Spain, and can the noble Lord say what will be the effect of Spanish membership on Community finances? I read in the press today that the Community already has a wine surplus of 3 billion litres, which is costing in the region of £600 million a year either to distil or to store, and £600 million is also the amount agreed for the 1984 supplementary budget. Will the noble Lord agree that we cannot afford to enlarge this burden, even in the good cause of assisting Spain and Portugal, and will he be able to assure the House that this will not in the event be permitted?

The Statement refers to progress on fisheries policy. We have read a great deal about fisheries recently and about the incident in the Irish Sea. Spain has a fishing fleet of around 17,000 vessels—I think about 70 per cent. of the Community total. Does the noble Lord agree that we could not possibly contemplate the continuation of such a large figure by comparison with the fleets of all the rest of the Community put together, including our own?

It is an unhappy task to have to reiterate and emphasise our concern about the Community budget and the direction in which it is tending, especially when at the same time we wish to welcome Spain and Portugal into the Community. We look forward to trading more freely with Spain and Portugal as tariffs are lowered and trade restrictions removed. Can the noble Lord predict whether the cutting of the present 34 per cent. tariff on British cars into Spain will have ramifications for the linemployment in this country, high enough as it is, and the car industry generally in Britain?

However, the budget question remains a sensitive and serious issue which could still threaten the harmony between member states. Will the noble Lord assure the House that all efforts will be made at the Brussels enlargement meeting on 12th and 13th November to secure firm expenditure control, which seems to us to be absolutely essential? Is the Minister optimistic about the success of that meeting, and is he now confident that enlargement will occur as planned on 1st January 1986?

Lord Gladwyn

My Lords, while associating myself with the very pertinent questions of the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, I must say that, on the face of it, this Statement is very welcome if rather surprising in the circumstances. I had not thought it would be so forward-looking as it is. I have only two questions. One is that, like the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, I imagine that most people have thought that the most difficult of all the problems under discussion will be that of fisheries, for obvious reasons. The difficulties were emphasised by the recent happenings off the coast of Ireland. But happily, as it seems, if we take the Statement as gospel, it says that Progress has also been made towards a common position on fisheries". Perhaps the Minister can tell us whether this represents substantial progress and whether there is, on the face of it, reason to suppose that even on this most difficult of all questions agreement will be reached fairly soon, thereby permitting the entry of Spain into the Community.

I have only one other small question. I note that the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs made clear our concern at the Commission's latest scheme for sales of intervention butter and wondered whether, in particular, this was compatible with the Community's obligations under the GATT. If it is incompatible under the GATT, perhaps the Minister can say how it is now proposed that the butter mountain, which has reached very considerable proportions, should be reduced.

Lord O'Brien of Lothbury

My Lords—

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord will allow me first to answer the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, and the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn. On the question of Gibraltar, I do not think I have very much more to add on that matter than the answers that I gave in the House the other day on a similar question. We certainly continue to regard it as inconceivable that the restrictions presently in force, particularly on the land border, can remain in place after Spain joins the Community. The Spaniards are well aware of our views on that matter, and indeed have subscribed to the Lisbon agreement which provides for the removal of those restrictions and for other matters. We ourselves stand ready to implement, of course, and now look to the Spaniards to do likewise.

Many of the other matters raised by the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, will, I think, be covered in the reports that I shall be circulating in the Official Report and the noble Lord may like to study those in due course. Certainly I agree with the noble Lord that the problems of the budget, particularly the common agricultural policy, which really is at the core of the budget problems of the Community, need very careful attention between now and the time when Spain joins the Community. She is, of course, a substantial agricultural producer. Indeed, she is a rather efficient agricultural producer and the other members of the Community will need to have regard to that.

We certainly look for an early and significant reduction in the duty on cars entering Spain, which is at a very high level compared with the duty charged on Spanish cars entering the United Kingdom. This is a problem which is not peculiar to the United Kingdom but is certainly one which we feel very keenly, and indeed some progress was made on that matter at the recent Council to which I have referred. Certainly we believe that we are on course for Spanish accession to the European Community in January 1986, but I have to agree that there are a number of difficulties still to be resolved.

On the question of fisheries, I cannot say that that matter has been solved. It certainly has not. A little progress was I believe made at the Council recently, but there are still many difficulties to be overcome in that particular regard and further discussions will certainly be necessary. On the question of butter, I do not think I have anything in particular to add to what was in the Statement. In fact, the Commission's proposals fall into two parts. There is the prospect of butter being sold within the Community generally at concessionary rates at Christmas time and there is now an additional aspect to the same proposal, which is a disposal of considerable quantities of older butter, which no doubt will find its way to the Soviet Union. The Government have made their views plain on that matter and we have, as the Statement said, raised the question of whether or not such disposals strictly fall within the GATT agreements. Those, I think, were all, or at least the main, points raised by noble Lords. As I said, I will circulate additional reports in Hansard which I hope will be of assistance to noble Lords.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, can there be a distribution of wine at Christmas?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, that is a happy thought, but the matter to which Foreign Affairs Ministers addressed their attention at the recent Council was the distribution of butter.

Lord O'Brien of Lothbury

My Lords, on behalf of your Select Committee on the European Communities, which, as your Lordships will be aware, recently reported on these matters which the Council of Ministers have now been considering, may I ask the Minister whether in the note which he is going to provide to the House there will be details of agreements reached about the effective containing of expenditure under the budget, and particularly the containing of expenditure under the common agricultural policy, which is an essential prelude to any agreement by this House and the other place to the increasing of the VAT contribution to the European Community?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord has put his finger upon one of the most important issues at present facing the European Community. The views of the British Government on this matter have never been in any doubt. Nevertheless, we wish to be constructive, and I shall ascertain what additional information I can make available to the noble Lord.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, could my noble friend say in what areas agreement was not reached, to what extent this will delay progress in the negotiations and whether this could affect Spain's accession to the Community on 1st January 1986? Would my noble friend agree that in effect the Lisbon agreement is a dead duck?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I do not agree for a moment that the Lisbon agreement is a dead duck. As my noble friend may recall, the Lisbon agreement was signed in 1980. The British Government have stood ready to implement that agreement ever since. The Spaniards have from time to time asked for clarification of certain aspects of the agreement, which we have endeavoured to provide. They have confirmed that they hope to be able to implement the agreement in due course. But the Government's view on the matter is very clear, and I hope that it will be in the mind of my noble friend.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, could my noble friend answer the first part of my question?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, my noble friend asked me to tell him the areas upon which agreement has not yet been reached. I have to say that on the matters to which I have referred final agreement has not yet been reached. I have reported progress to your Lordships, but not final agreement.

Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, those who were at the meetings which took place so recently and which Ministers attended must have been aware to some extent of the dreadful situation in Ethiopia. I am wondering whether that situation featured at all on the agenda, and, if not, whether any initiatives are likely to be taken by the Minister through his connections with the European Community over the distribution of surpluses in order to assist Ethiopia.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, although this matter was not specifically discussed at the Council of Foreign Ministers to which I referred, I understand that my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has decided that we should make a further major contribution by directing that the balance of our national food aid allocated for this year—over 6,000 tonnes—should be made available to Ethiopia. In addition, we shall provide £5 million in drought-related assistance to Ethiopia and to other African countries which are in need. I am told that £5 million will buy about 20,000 tonnes of grain. If the other members of the Community contributed proportionately, that would mean an extra 100,000 tonnes.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, could my noble friend clear up a point on Gibraltar, which he dealt with the other day with less than his usual high standard of clarity? Do my noble friend and the Government accept that it would be inconsistent with membership of the European Community for Spain to continue to obstruct the use of her airspace to aircraft seeking to use Gibraltar airport?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have to tell my noble friend that this is not a matter for the European Community. Spain is not preventing access to Gibraltar airport although, as the noble Lord is well aware, difficulties arise over the Spanish prohibited area which lies adjacent to it. As I have already said, this is not a matter which lies within the competence of the European Community, but it is one upon which the Spanish Government are in no doubt as to our views. My noble friend wrote to me immediately following our exchange the other day. I have it in mind to reply at some length to my noble friend as soon as I can.

Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, while welcoming the statement made by the Minister with regard to the assistance given by the United Kingdom Government to Ethiopia, could he answer the question as to whether Her Majesty's Government propose to take initiatives through the Community in order to encourage the Community to respond to this situation by the distribution of some of their vast surpluses?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, it is for the Commission to initiate action. Nevertheless, I do not believe we can do better than to create an example which we hope others will follow.

Lord Ardwick

My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister could end this exchange on a cheerful note by agreeing that one important blockage has at last been removed, and that life can begin again at Brussels, with all its difficulties and complications?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am not quite sure to which great new dawn the noble Lord is referring. I recall quite a number of those during the course of the life of the European Community. Progress has certainly been made on this matter, and we hope for a successful conclusion in due course.

Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe

My Lords, could the noble Lord help the House over the position on enlargement? We very much welcome the statement from the Commission that they look forward to the accession of Portugal and Spain in January 1986. We note also from the statement that the Community positions were agreed and communicated to the Spanish and Portuguese Foreign Ministers, and that all appears to be happy and optimistic. Yet, as reported in The Times today, the Spanish Foreign Minister said, "At first glance the Community seems a long way away from us". There seems to be a little uncertainty in many parts of the House about the position on enlargement. I wonder whether the Minister could enlarge upon that subject.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I can do no better than to repeat the words which I used the other day—not verbatim, but in essence—when we discussed this matter. The Government very much support the principle of Spanish and Portuguese accession to the European Community. We are working to negotiate our way through the inevitable difficulties which are created by that proposal. We have passed quite a number of the difficulties, and have solved some of them. We are now working to resolve the remainder. We still believe that it is desirable and probable that the European Community will be enlarged by the addition of Spain and Portugal in January 1986.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, although the appalling problem of starvation in Ethiopia and elsewhere was no part of the discussions in the council, none the less we are grateful to the noble Lord for the information that he has been able to let us have today. I believe that I speak on behalf of the whole House when I say that in view of the information which has come forward following the exchange on this subject which we had in the House on Friday of last week, we would expect Her Majesty's Government to take action with our partners in the Community, or, if necessary, alone, up to the point of chartering ships to take grain to Ethiopia, just as we chartered ships to go to the Falklands. Would the noble Lord be good enough to press this point on his right honourable friend?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I shall certainly take note of what the noble Lord says, but I have announced today an additional bilateral contribution to the problems of drought and famine in Ethiopia. It is difficult to imagine setting a better example than that.

Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe

My Lords, I apologise for returning to the subject, but may I ask the noble Lord whether the reports which he is to place in the Official Report will more clearly define the Community positions on Spanish and Portuguese accession which are referred to in the Statement? Will they more clearly define what exactly the Community positions are?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, there will be some additional information in the documents which are to be incorporated in the Official Report. However, I am not today in a position to announce the completion of the negotiations. That has not yet been achieved. There are still some difficulties to be overcome. That is why I cannot go further than I have.