The Miners' Strike: Costs (Hansard, 22 October 1984)

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)
My Lords, no decision has yet been taken.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, since no decision has yet been taken, will the noble Lord inform the House whether he is aware of the reports that have appeared in the responsible press over the past three weeks, some of which may have come indirectly from Government departments, that there is going to be a surcharge on electricity bills in order to pay for the costs of the miners' strike? May I also ask the noble Lord to answer this question. When considering this matter, will Her Majesty's Government bear in mind that on 31st July last, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, speaking in the House of Commons on this subject, said that the costs of the strike represented a worthwhile national investment? Will the noble Lord say whether, if that be the case, the whole country would care to participate in that investment rather than the consumers of electricity being required to contribute to any such cost?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the noble Lord is surmising at what might be done. I refer the noble Lord to the Answer that I gave, which was that no decision has been taken. So far as the surcharge on electricity bills is concerned, this is entire speculation on behalf of the noble Lord opposite. What my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced at the end of July was that expenditure was then between some £300 million to £350 million. I have no more up-to-date figures at the present time to give the noble Lord.

§ Lord Davies of Leek
My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask whether he can say if the contingency fund, or some of it, would be available for this purpose?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the reserve to which the noble Lord refers is set at £2¾ billion in last year's public expenditure White Paper. So far, programme increases amounting to some £¾ billion have have been charged to the reserve to meet part of the cost of various other items. There are other potential charges, of which I suppose the miners' strike is one, but amounts are less certain. The total position is being monitored closely.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, will the noble Lord assure the House that when the decision to which he has referred is taken, or before that decision is taken, he will draw the attention of his honourable and right honourable friends to the fact that as long ago as last February, in a report prepared for the present Chancellor of the Exchequer when he was energy Minister, Coopers and Lybrand found that electricity was already being overcharged by up to 10 per cent?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, that is a matter for those who made that assessment. I am sure that that has been noted by my right honourable friend but I do not have that particular statement in front of me.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, will the noble Lord say whether the £300 million is the total cost to all Government departments, to all local authorities and to all those individuals who have lost their earnings?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, those figures that I gave related to the expenditure that had then been incurred. It is not quite what the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, would understand as a book figure because, if we take the total overall cost figure, the figure that I gave is reduced by the stock rundown and cut back in capital investment programmes. So the figures will not actually show up in the profit and loss account. However, I hope that answers the noble Lord's point.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, is the noble Lord saying that the £300 million does not include any police costs, any damage which has been done one way or the other, extra expenses to the local authorities, and so on?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, it includes those costs.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, would it be the intention of Her Majesty's Government, when this decision is made, to issue a White Paper setting out clearly what the Government understand by the word "costs"? There are direct costs, there are indirect costs; there is cash expenditure; there is damage; and there are various other items. It is obviously in the public interest to know exactly what is the total and how the Government view it.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am sure that those responsible will note the noble Lord's remarks. I am well aware of the noble Lord's particular interest and experience in financial matters. The fact is that it is best to wait until the end of the day to establish exactly what has been the total cost.

Lord Morris
My Lords, would this question not be better aimed at the conscience of the President of the National Union of Mineworkers?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend is quite right.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, in case the question of surcharging the electricity consumer may be one of the options that is considered by the noble Lord's right honourable friends, may I ask this question? Will the noble Lord bear in mind the remarks of his colleague, the noble Earl, Lord Avon, last year, to which I have already referred, when he said that the Government had no powers or no wish to raise the power prices? Will the noble Lord give the House an assurance that the legalities of the position under the electricity Acts are thoroughly examined? Otherwise there may be a temptation to advise electricity consumers that any extra demands made upon them are illegal and that they should refuse to pay.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord will realise that the Government will of course act within the law when it comes to considering what is to be done about the costs. As I have said, no decisions on electricity price increases have been taken.

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, will my noble friend agree that, in the end, regrettable, heavy extra 4 Government expenditure of this kind can only be recouped either from the consumer or the taxpayer? Will my noble friend further agree that although this will inevitably be a large sum, it would be a much larger sum if the principle of keeping open any form of productive institution at huge losses were endorsed for all time?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend. I think that he is absolutely right. The principle is an all-important one; that is why we must do all that we possibly can to ensure that this dispute is brought to a speedy conclusion.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, will the Government consider cancelling their decision to close down 20 pits with the result of our having to import coal from Poland?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I think that the noble Lord will realise that that is a different question.