Spain: EC Accession Negotiations (Hansard, 17 October 1984)

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the Community and Spain have reached the final stages of the accession negotiations, but some important and difficult issues remain to be resolved within the Community as well as with Spain. We shall be working for a speedy solution to these problems so that accession for Spain and for Portugal may take place as the Spaniards wish on 1st January 1986.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his reply. The negotiations are clearly taking longer than had been expected. Can my noble friend confirm today's reports that the Spanish Government have approached all the member countries of the Community expressing anxiety about progress in these negotiations? Will the British Government nonetheless aim for clear and definite agreements on the important outstanding issues, even if this means postponement of the date of accession? While we look forward to the entry into the Community of Spain and Portugal, to paper over differences by reaching an ambiguous settlement would only store up trouble for the future.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as far as the views of the Spanish Prime Minister are concerned, we understand and share the Spanish Government's concern at the slow progress in the enlargment negotiations, and we shall continue to work for an early resolution of the outstanding issues. But on the second point put to me by my noble friend, we hope and believe that it will be possible to reach the sort of agreement which he wants, and which we want too, within the time scale to which I have referred.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House what are what he described as the important and difficult issues which now stand in the way of accession? To what extent is the issue of Gibraltar one of those obstacles? Have Her Majesty's Government made the lifting of restrictions a condition of entry? Will he be good enough to be clear on that? Have Her Majesty's Government made an assessment of the budgetary implications to Great Britain of the entry of Spain and Portugal into the EEC?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, on the first point put to me by the noble Lord, I can say that negotiations are currently under way on industrial tariff transition, agriculture, fisheries, social affairs and institutions. Indeed, enlargement is expected to be the prime topic for discussion at the Foreign Affairs Council on 22nd and 23rd October in Luxembourg. We hope that the negotiations on these dossiers may be completed by the end of November, although there are some knotty points still to he resolved and we may not be able to achieve that.
As far as Gibraltar is concerned, the restriction on movement which exists between Spain and Gibraltar is incompatible with the obligations which Spain will assume as a member of the Community. Agreement has been reached between the Community and Spain that in the context of the external relations chapter the application of Community obligations in respect of external trade means, from accession, the elimination of all obstacles to trade between Spain and Gibraltar except as permitted by exceptions and derogations in accordance with Community law. We are confident that the European Community and Spain can also reach agreement in due course in the context of the social affairs chapter as it relates to the free movement of persons.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, can my noble friend make it equally clear that Spanish accession to the Community would involve the withdrawal of the restrictions in the use of Spanish air space by Gibraltar aircraft?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, that is really a different matter which does not fall within the competence of the European Community; but as my noble friend knows we have made our views on that point very clear to the Spaniards.

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that although the two organisations do not fully overlap, the Spaniards' future attitude to NATO is likely to be very influenced by the success or failure of their application to join the EC? Would he not 985 further agree that that is an additional reason for doing everything possible to iron out these differences?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, again our views on Spanish entry into the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation have been made very clear. Of course they did accede to the treaty organisation in 1982. We now hope that they will feel able in due course to enter fully into the alliance's integrated military structure. Nonetheless, there are still some restrictions which we regret. However, again I am not sure that that is a matter directly related to Spanish entry into the European Community.

§ Lord Broxbourne
My Lords, can my noble friend accept that the imminent addition of Spain and Portugal to the Community and the addition of any further members emphasises the necessity for clearing up the constitutional and practical matters arising from questions of the external competence of the EC? Would he say that the Government are diligent in this regard and will report to the House on the progress in respect thereof?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, my noble friend is right to say that these matters are continuing to be studied within the Community. Of course there are a number of difficulties which will flow from Spanish accession to the European Community. However, we are working to solve these difficulties, most particularly in the area of the budget.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, am I right in assuming that the difficulties now unfortunately regarding the early entry of Spain into the EC are largely attributable to fears of the effects of such entry on French and Italian agriculture and much less, I hope, to any inhibitions as regards entry on the part of Her Majesty's Government?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, it is certainly true that the French and the Italians have pointed to the problems that Spanish entry will generate for the EC with regard to the agricultural policy. That is one of the matters that will have to be resolved between now and accession.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for the very full and helpful replies that he has given to these questions. Can he confirm in simple terms that on the day when Spain accedes to the European Community restrictions in relation to Gibraltar will be lifted? Is that the position?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I cannot go further than the remarks I made just now. As the noble Lord may know, my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary met with the Spanish Foreign Secretary recently in New York. Further meetings are planned. I feel certain that the difficulties to which the noble Lord has pointed and the difficulties about which the governments have made their position clear can be resolved in time for the accession.

§ Lord Merrivale
My Lords, in pursuance of the answer he has given to the Leader of the Opposition, 986 can my noble friend say what effect now these restrictions are having on the economy of Gibraltar? Are Her Majesty's Government prepared to provide further economic assistance should it be needed, in view of the fact that there could be delay in the accession of Spain beyond 1st January 1986?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I hope and believe that the delay which my noble friend points to will not take place. My noble friend will know better than I the support we have given to the Gibraltarians in recent years following from the restrictions that were imposed by the Spaniards some time ago. The answer to these problems is to lift those restrictions, and that is the end to which we are working.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, will the noble Lord make it quite clear that nobody can join the Common Market without our consent? That is in the Treaty of Rome. Will he make it clear that our consent will not be given to any new member who does not join with us in agreeing to the right of the Gibraltarian people to choose their own destiny? We have betrayed too many of our imperial friends.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the Government have made their position quite clear about the restrictions on the Gibraltar-Spanish border as regards Spanish entry to the European Community. However, I doubt whether these problems are best solved by one side hectoring the other about the difficulties. We seek to persuade them to resolve these problems. I think we have achieved that in the form of the Lisbon Agreement to which they agreed a couple of years ago and we are now working for the implementation of that.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that despite his last answer, his answers to the questions that he has been asked over the past few minutes are rather like a replay of what we had when we were considering whether or not we would sign the Treaty of Rome? It appears that we present having agreement on lots of details but a great doubt about whether there is real agreement on fundamentals. One would hope that the lack of affinity that exists between the Ten is not going to be made worse by having an extension which would mean that the possibility of affinity is made even more remote.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, if I may say so, I think that my friend has it the wrong way round. The principle of Spanish and Portuguese accession to the European Community is something which we support very strongly indeed. What we are now seeking to do is to solve the practical difficulties that such enlargement presents. We are working towards that. We have already made considerable progress. I hope and believe that all the outstanding problems can be solved before Spanish accession on 1st January 1986.

§ Lord George-Brown
My Lords, as the Foreign Secretary who in the name of both Houses of Parliament and on behalf of the country actually laid the application by this country to join Europe, may I ask the Minister to make it clear to all noble Lords 987 who keep raising individual, awkward questions that our aim is to be regarded as the capital, the most important nation in Europe?

§ Lord Gladwyn
In the world!

§ Lord George-Brown
My Lords, if we are in Europe we shall be in the world and there is no other continent we have ever been in but Europe. May I ask the Minister quite seriously to make it plain that we speak as Europeans? We would love to have the Spaniards and the Portuguese alongside us. We shall solve the economic problems as we go. But can we for once—the Prime Minister does not but can we for once—speak as what we have always been—Europeans—and recognise that the rest of Europe would prefer us rather than France, Germany or anyone else to lead them?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I know of no evidence to support the suggestion that the French or the Germans want us out of the Community, as the noble Lord seems to be suggesting. However, I think the earlier part of the noble Lord's supplementary question underlined what I said just now. We very strongly support the principle of Spanish and Portuguese accession to the European Community. We are now working to solve some of the practical difficulties in the way of that accession. They would have joined before now had it not been for those difficulties. We hope and believe that those problems will be solved in due course and that the Spanish and Portuguese will enter the Community as planned on 1st January, 1986.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend clear up one point that was ambiguous, if I may say so, in earlier replies. He said that he hoped that all practical difficulties would be solved before Spain comes in. Are we to understand therefore that he hopes but is not yet certain that claims to sovereignty over Gibraltar by Spain will be dropped before Spain does come in?

§ Lord George-Brown
My Lords, no.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the difficulties that the United Kingdom has had with Spain over the problems of Gibraltar are well known to everyone, including your Lordships. We must clearly solve the restrictions that have applied to the free transit of persons and goods between those two parts of the Community, as they will become I hope, before accession takes place. I hope and believe that the Spaniards will see the force of that.

§ Lord Wells-Pestell
My Lords, in the event of Spain entering the EC, shall we as a country have the right to apply for extradition proceedings against people who have left this country when they are wanted on criminal charges?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, that is, if I may say so, a different matter. I believe that there are some negotiations taking place on it at the present time.