§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what was the level of reseach and development expenditure in 1983 on nuclear energy, non-nuclear energy, and energy conservation.
§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Gray of Contin)My Lords, expenditure by Government departments, the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority, the research councils and the energy nationalised industries in 1983–84 on research and development is as follows: energy efficiency, £44.8 million: non-nuclear sources of energy, £210.5 million; and nuclear, £265.5 million. Total research and development expenditure in the private sector is estimated to be on a scale similar to the overall public sector effort. Most of this spending is concentrated on non-nuclear research and development, notably in the oil and gas sector, and on improving energy efficiency.
§ Lord EzraMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. Would he not agree that too little is being spent on energy efficiency and conservation? This is an area to which the Government are devoting a great deal of attention. Does he not believe that the efforts being made by the Secretary of State for Energy to spread the concept of energy efficiency could be supported by a greater allocation of research and development expenditure?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, I know, of course, of the very great interest that the noble Lord takes in these matters. I would suggest to him, however, that the efforts being made in this field by the Secretary of State for Energy are very considerable. In September, he announced plans for the energy efficiency demonstration scheme to be expanded to a total of over 500 projects at a cost to government of £65 million. This scheme is aimed at achieving £800 million a year savings on fuel bills. Indeed, it has already achieved its first target of stimulating £60 million a year in savings, and it is well on its way to reaching its December 1985 target of £120 million a year in savings.
§ Lord Taylor of HadfieldMy Lords, it may interest the House to know that Britain has accumulated the equivalent of 300 years of experience of nuclear electric power stations without one single incident, and that the knowledge of Britain on the nuclear side is 678 predominant in the world. Indeed, today, in addition to the Government, many private enterprise companies are spending a lot of time and money on nuclear research.
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. Of course, I agree with him that the contribution made to the whole power industry by nuclear power is significant and will continue to be so in the years ahead.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord two questions? First, is it not a fact that the amount of money we spend on research into renewable energy is very small indeed in relation to that spent by other countries, and is it not necessary, in spite of our huge reserves of fossil fuels, to have a balanced energy programme that includes a good portion of renewable energy? Secondly, in relation to nuclear research, is it the intention of the Government to shift the burden of funding work on the fast breeder reactor and nuclear safety from the Department of Energy to the CEGB? If that is so, would that not be loading the bulk of the cost of nuclear research on to electricity consumers through increased electricity prices?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, on the first point that the noble Lord has raised, I am sure he appreciates that the amount of research and development funding for renewables is essentially less than that for nuclear power. One of the reasons for this is that a great many of our renewable sources of energy have simply not yet reached a stage where they could absorb vast injections of funds, whether from the private or the public sector. Nevertheless, there is a continuing programme taking place of research into renewables. When we look at what is happening in relation to various substitutes—for example, natural gas and gas liquefaction projects—there is a considerable amount being done. We shall benefit from those in due course, in the future.
As to the funding of nuclear energy, we have a major nuclear energy research programme into which we have pumped money for many years. This is unquestionably successful. We are not as far ahead as we should or could be with our nuclear programme, but we are, I think, in a situation in which we are now able to capitalise on the earlier research. We have been in the fortunate situation that, because of our abundance of fossil fuels in the form of coal, oil and gas, we have perhaps not needed to pursue our nuclear programme in the way that, for example, the French have had to do. Nevertheless, we have made substantial progress and we shall continue to do so.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, I am sorry, but I do not think that the noble Lord answered the question. Is it the Government's intention not to fund the nuclear research programme through his own department but to swing the expenditure on to the CEGB? Is the CEGB to carry a far greater proportion of the expenditure on research in the future than it has done in the past?
§ Lord Gray of ContinMy Lords, the CEGB obviously has an important part to play in research. The amount that it spends on research is very largely in its own hands, as to how it feels it should use the funds available to it for research. There is certainly not any plan at the moment to divert from the Department of Energy to the CEGB the responsibility for research that is presently being carried out by the department.