Tree Planting: Grants (Hansard, 23 May 1984)

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Gray of Contin)
My Lords, the best estimate of the amount paid out in grants by the Forestry Commission and the two countryside commissions in the five years to 31st March 1984 specifically for the planting of broad-leaved trees is £8.8 million.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord very much indeed for that response. Can he say how much was spent by the Forestry Commission and the Institute of Terrestrial Ecology and other Government funded bodies on research into grey squirrel control for the same period? Can he also say whether he considers, in view of the probability that a great many of these trees that have been planted will be eaten by grey squirrels within the next nine or 10 years, that it would be a good idea if the Government were to alter their priorities and did not pay grants until there was some successful method of controlling grey squirrels?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I share the concern of the noble Countess on this matter but regrettably it is not possible to exterminate the grey squirrel, which has successfully established itself in this country following widespread introductions at the end of the last century. Money for research is made available by the Natural Environment Research Council through its grants and studentships to universities. The Forestry Commission, the Institute of Terrestrial Ecology and the Nature Conservancy Council also undertake research on grey squirrel control, methods, damaging behaviour by grey squirrels, and the interaction between grey and red squirrels. Unfortunately, I do not have a note of the total amount which the noble Countess asked for and perhaps I could write to her with that information in due course.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, is it not true that, notwithstanding the sums mentioned by the noble Lord as having been provided by the Forestry Commission and the two countryside commissions, the demand for funds from the farming community and the requests for advice as to how to set about maintaining existing broad-leaved woodlands greatly exceeds the supply in both respects? Is this not welcome evidence of the concern of the farming community to regenerate their broad-leaved woodlands and maintain those that exist, and also evidence of the need to step up the supply in both respects?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
Yes, my Lords, there is no doubt that under the Forestry Commission's forestry grants scheme higher grants are available for the planting of broad-leaved trees on suitable sites; the 227 rates varying according to the size of the wood. There are four differential grants ranging from £850 per hectare for woodland between one-quarter and one hectare, to £450 per hectare for woodlands of 10 hectares and over.

§ Lord Kilbracken
My Lords, can the noble Lord say what he means by "the interaction between grey and red squirrels"?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, my best information would be that the relationship between them is remote, but the ultimate results are similar.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that of the 2 million hectares of our forest land in this country a mere 660,000 hectares remain as broad-leaved? Does he recall that in 1980 the House of Lords Select Committee on Science and Technology, in a report on forestry, stated that the decline should be halted and that no further reduction should be allowed? Can the noble Lord say what action the Government are taking, other than making available grants for broad-leaved planting? In particular, what action are the Government taking to improve the policy of the Forestry Commission in regard to planting broad-leaved areas that have been felled?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, perhaps I can tell the noble Baroness that over the past five years the Forestry Commission and the private sector, taken together, have planted on average some 1,700 hectares of broad-leaved trees per annum. This figure covers both new planting and re-stocking. In addition, a large number of broad-leaved trees are being planted for amenity. The Forestry Commission's recently published Census of Woodlands and Trees in Britain shows that, while changes have taken place in some parts of the country and that the mix of species has altered, the total area of broad-leaved woodland has increased slightly since 1947, when the last full survey was carried out.

Lady Saltoun
My Lords, can the noble Lord say what proportion of the grants paid out have been paid in respect of the planting of balsam poplar?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, it is not possible to give a precise figure for the rates of grant paid by the Forestry Commission for planting under the older grants schemes. The reason is that there was no difference between the grants available for broad-leaves and for conifers. The amounts were not kept separate, and therefore I cannot make an apportionment in that respect.

The Marquess of Aberdeen and Temair
My Lords, can the noble Lord say how much of the amount of grant paid was for Scotland?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot help the noble Marquess without notice of that question. I shall certainly get the information for him and write to him.

§ Lord Dulverton
My Lords, can my noble friend give the relevant figures on hardwood planting grants for the last financial year—the original Question of the noble Countess, Lady Mar, covered five years—by the Forestry Commission, the countryside commissions and the local authorities? Can my noble friend say what proportion this figure represents of all planting grants during the year in question? Can he further say when the response of the Forestry Commission to the recommendations of your Lordships' Select Committee on Science and Technology in relation to hardwoods policy will be available?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, to take first the third point raised by my noble friend, the answer is "very soon". As regards the first two questions dealing with the last financial year, these are very detailed and since the information available to me at the moment is for the five-year period I am afraid I cannot help my noble friend. but will let him have the information in due course. The estimated amount of grant aid provided by the countryside commissions for broad-leaved planting is more than three times that provided by the Forestry Commission: the countryside commissions' being £6,700,000 and the Forestry Commission's £2,100,000. I shall let my noble friend have the detailed information he requests.

§ The Earl of Kintore
My Lords, can the noble Lord say what happened to the successful experiments of controlling grey squirrels by the use of Warfarin baits?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friend's knowledge is superior to mine on this occasion. I shall have to make inquiries and let him know the answer to his question.

§ Lord Polwarth
My Lords, if there is such a thing in your Lordships' House as a backwoodsman, does the noble Lord agree that this is a very suitable subject for their discussion?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. As one of that species myself, I take the point.

§ Viscount Mersey
My Lords, can my noble friend tell us whether the Government are having any success in developing a species of elm resistant to the elm bark beetle?

§ Lord Gray of Contin
My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friends credit me with very much more knowledge than is at my fingertips. I shall certainly make the necessary inquiries and write to my noble friend.