Motorways and Trunk Roads (Hansard, 21 May 1984)

§ Viscount Mersey
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, between January 1979 and April 1984. 207 miles of motorway and 512 miles of other trunk roads have been completed in Great Britain.

§ Viscount Mersey
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Could he also tell us what level of capital expenditure there was on the motorways in the four years before 1979 and the four years after 1979?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, not perhaps in those terms: but in the financial years 1979–80 to 1982–83. £2,1 10 million was spent on capital investment compared with £1,410 million in the financial years 1975–76 to 1978–79.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, motorways and trunk roads have to end in conurbations. Can the noble Lord, the Minister say what consideration has been given by the Government to the campaign launched by the construction industry showing the amount of work to be carried through in the conurbations? Have the Government had discussions; and what is the effect on the conurbations' road development of the reduction in the transport supplementary grant from 70 per cent. to 55 per cent.?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I very much regret to tell the noble Lord. Lord Underhill, that I cannot answer his supplementary questions on local roads since the original Question was on trunk roads and motorways.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, could my noble friend say when he thinks the M.25 is going to be finished, and whether there are any plans for improving the trunk roads towards the south side of the river?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the 121.5 miles of M.25 will be completed in 1986 at a total cost of £909 million.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend say how many miles of motorway are now laden beyond their design capacity, and are consequently in need of repair?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I cannot answer my noble friend in terms of mileage, but I can tell him that the older motorways—those which are 19 or 20 years of age, and notably the M1—are in need of renewal and repair. There are no motorways that are considerably overladen; that is, past the forecast traffic figures that were projected at the time of construction.

§ Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, can my noble friend tell me this? If the intention of the 5 Government's White Paper in the early 'seventies had been carried out—an intention to build 2,000 miles of strategic motorway by 1980—would that not have saved millions of pounds, even considering the increase in inflation during this time? My second question is: are the Government learning from the earlier mistakes that were made when we started our motorway programme, as exemplified in the early parts of the MI in Hertfordshire, where the road was two lanes each way while the rest of the M1 was three lanes in each way and where great expense is now being incurred to increase the number of traffic lanes? Has that lesson been learned? I ask because when the Dartford Tunnel was built, it was built with two lanes each way. Will that not create a bottleneck, with the prospect of greater expense in the future?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, in so far as the figure of 2,000 miles is concerned, my noble friend will accept that there are changes in patterns of traffic and that no scheme outlined some 20 years ago can remain absolute in all terms and conditions. Currently, there are 1,404 miles of motorway and 4,826 miles of other trunk roads. There is in the current plan a further 200-odd miles of motorway and some 512 miles trunk road to be completed in the next few years. As far as my noble friend's question relating to the two-lane or three-lane approach to the Dartford Tunnel is concerned, I can tell him that in our view the congestion currently occurring is not due to the narrowing of the traffic approaches but to the tollbooth numbers. These are being increased on both sides of the river at departmental expense.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the place for a discussion on motorways is a debate?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, it is not for me to agree or disagree with the noble Baroness. I am here (as one of my noble friends said only last week) to answer to the best of my ability the questions which the House puts to me.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, as one who is very deeply impressed by the construction of the motorways, may I ask how the expenditure on them compares with the expenditure on providing new houses for the homeless and the overcrowded?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, that is another question, but Her Majesty's Government have spent a good deal on providing for the homeless. It is always, as the noble Lord will agree, a question of balance.