Pensioners and Supplementary Benefit (Hansard, 14 May 1984)

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)
My Lords, in 1981, the latest date for which information is available, it is estimated that about 810,000 pensioners were not claiming supplementary pensions to which they were entitled. The Government continue to take steps to encourage take-up of supplementary pension.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that that figure is quite unacceptable in these days when people are living at the standards at which they are living? Does he also agree with me that more information could be readily available to improve the situation? For example, the information contained in the pensioner's payment book could be improved, simplified and certainly written in larger print. Does the Minister further agree that more interviewing visits could and should be made to pensioners who are old, who are less mobile and who live in rural areas?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the indications are that in 1981 most of those who were eligible for but not claiming supplementary benefit were receiving housing rebates or allowances. The introduction of the housing benefits scheme should have improved the position. The local authorities also have a formula to identify housing benefit claimants who might also have entitlement to supplementary benefit or to housing benefit supplement. All new pensioners are in any case issued with a claim form for supplementary benefit. Pilot schemes are currently assessing the introduction of postal claiming, and these will be looked at in due course. The addition of a Freefone information and advice service across the whole range of social security benefits is now also available, and that is helping the situation.

§ Baroness Jeger
My Lords, will the noble Lord answer my noble friend's question about the possibility of using the retirement pension book to set these claims out more clearly? I am not sure whether the noble Lord is aware, as I am, of the smallness of the print at the back of the pension book which gives this 1132 information. Secondly, when special inquiry officers are put on to people to find out whether they are over-claiming, can the noble Lord say that those same officers might, in the course of their visit, investigate whether people are under-claiming and help them to put in a claim for their full amount, instead of giving the impression that their whole intention is to stop people getting possible overpayments?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, without notice I should not like to delve too deeply into the question of over-claiming versus under-claiming, as the noble Baroness suggests. But so far as the pension books are concerned and the size of the print, that is certainly a matter at which I will look to see whether anything can be done.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us whether he has the figures to show the trend over the last two, three or perhaps four years?

§ Lord Glenarthur
Yes, my Lords. There was a welcome improvement between 1979 and 1981. In 1979 an estimated 900,000 pensioners were not claiming benefits to which they were entitled. That compares with 810,000 in 1981. So far as projecting it forward is concerned, if one were to use the old formula—because the two are not directly comparable—the figures would show a take-up of approximately 72 per cent. at the end of 1981.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, while commenting that my noble friend who asked this question is quite right in being astonished at the enormous number of those who are not claiming, can the noble Lord tell us why these people are not claiming? Is it because they do not know, in which case it is disgraceful; or is there some other reason? Why, in fact, are they not claiming these sums? Is the noble Lord able to tell us? If he cannot tell us, should we not be finding out?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the reasons are rather complex, and there are a number of them. It may be that some pensioners perceive no need to claim, or, indeed, prefer not to claim, especially if their entitlement is a comparatively small one or if they are living with relatives in reasonably well-off households. Research regarding pensioners receiving rent and rate rebates and allowances shows that, of 92 pensioners informed of their entitlement to supplementary benefit, only 10 in fact claimed at the end of the day.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there is a further complication for people in terms of national health treatment, in that if they are in receipt of supplementary benefit they simply put a cross on the form and they are entitled to free treatment, whereas if they are receiving the rent and rate rebates to which my noble friend referred then even under those circumstances they have to go through a great deal of additional paperwork although they would be in the same financial situation as a supplementary benefit recipient? Will my noble friend ask his department to look into that matter, which is taking up a lot of unnecessary Civil Service time in administration?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I shall certainly take note of my noble friend's remarks, and will look into the matter.

§ Lord Hale
My Lords, is the noble Lord not aware that these figures are really quite appalling and show a tragic breakdown in the public service for the payment and allocation of these pensions? Surely this is a case which demands a little more thought, a little more care and a little more insistence that notice is taken of the information obtained from the noble Lord's office, and of the extent to which it can be improved?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, so far as the Government are concerned, thought and care certainly go into all these aspects. It is also true, of course, that the inquiry into the provision for retirement, which at the moment is being chaired by my right honourable friend, will look at this matter as well, and it is hoped that that might produce some answers.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, has my friend noticed—and one would not wish to blame his department—that in this day of the computer, when delays are measured in nano-seconds, it is rather surprising that the latest set of figures in this instance applies to 1981, and here we are nearly halfway through 1984? This is the case time and time again when statistics are sought. Will he raise this matter with the central government department, and say that it is no use investing in computers if they are utterly unable to give Parliament more up-to-date figures than are presently available?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the reason that these figures are so out of date is that they come from the biennial family expenditure survey, which has not yet been looked at other than in draft, for the year ending 1983. However, they will be available in due course. With regard to equipment, this is a matter at which the department is looking and in due course it may be able to help on it.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the noble Lord not aware of the report which appeared in the Guardian last Thursday, which indicated not only that the Government will reduce the number of visitors to old-age pensioners and other under-privileged groups, but that, at the other end of the spectrum, they intend to increase the number of investigators? Are not the priorities a little wrong, and is this not a nasty and savage little exercise which we could well do without?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I believe that that is another Question which essentially relates to a different subject. However, the fact remains that this Government have done a great deal to preserve the benefits that pensioners receive by sorting out the problems of inflation which, of course, vastly contributed to the discomfort which they felt in the past.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, is not the Minister aware that quite a number of people in this age bracket still look upon this as part of the means test 1134 and are reluctant to declare it because of the old prejudice against the means test?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, to some extent the noble Lord may be correct, and we are trying to do what we can to encourage those who are entitled to claim to do so in the way that I described in my answer to an earlier supplementary question.