§ 2.58 p.m.
Lord Belhaven and StentonMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking or propose to take to protect the staff of London Transport and other public transport undertakings against physical assault.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I am advised that London Transport and the Metropolitan Police have recently launched a new campaign to step up the policing of London's buses and that this is showing some promising results. My department is participating in the work of an inter-departmental committee convened by the Health and Safety Executive to review what action might be taken by employers to guard against foreseeable violence. As part of that committee's work we are asking public transport operators, trade unions, and the police to help us get a better understanding of the nature of these assaults and the most effective counter-measures. Assaults on public transport staff are a matter of serious concern to the Government and we are willing to examine any constructive proposals for reducing the number of incidents.
Lord Belhaven and StentonMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply, which is quite encouraging. Is my noble friend aware of the anxiety and dissatis-faction felt by the victims of these assaults and their colleagues, in that they feel for some reason that no one in authority will listen to them although it sounds from my noble friend's Answer that possibly they do? Would my noble friend urge those in authority, however, to pay heed to the views of the rank and file, the conductors and the drivers, who are the victims of this lawlessness, and would my noble friend himself consider talking to some of them?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I should say at the outset that the Government are concerned with and have knowledge of the anxieties of those people who suffer. Perhaps I should tell your Lordships that in 1982–83 there was a fall in the number of assaults on London Transport operatives and also a slight fall in the attacks on British Rail staff.
The trade unions who represent most of the people concerned are being invited to participate in the transport sector working group under my department, who will be giving evidence to that inquiry to which I have already referred.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, has the Minister any information about the times of day when these attacks occur? If there is a correlation between pub closing times and peaks in the numbers of assaults, is it not a reasonable inference that alcohol is a mediating factor in these offences? If that is so, will the Government look carefully at any proposals for extending licensing hours in England and Wales to correspond with those in Scotland, such as have been put forward by an honourable Member in another place? In particular, will the Government ensure that the trade unions representing transport workers are consulted before they reach a final decision on this matter?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I am sorry to tell your Lordships that the greatest number of assaults on bus crews occur in the late afternoons. This is associated with school going-home time.
The second most important period is in the late evening, and the incidents there are often associated with drunkenness. There has been some diminution in the number of assaults as a result of the hop-on-a-bus system now used by the Metropolitan Police. I am quite sure that the interdepartmental committee looking into this matter have licensing hours and a number of other issues in the forefront of their minds.
§ Lord HaleMy Lords, has the noble Lord considered looking at the question of tannin poisoning, which has had very serious effects in those areas of political life in which it is consumed to excess?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I have no personal knowledge of this matter, but will certainly take account of it in reporting to officials in my department.
Lord Belhaven and StentonMy Lords, in the various discussions which my noble friend told me about, are the victims of these assaults being consulted in any way?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, as I thought I indicated in an earlier answer to a supplementary question, the victims are consulted by way of the Transport and General Workers Union transport group membership of the sector working party which advises the Health and Safety Executive inquiry.