The Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether in view of their answer on 2nd February (col. 760) that they are "dealing first with the proposals from the two largest NICC groups, the electricity and gas industries" they will state the progress made on these guidelines which affect consumer councils of nationalised industries.
§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)My Lords, draft guidelines have been prepared in the light of proposals from the National Gas Consumers Council and the Electricity Consumers Council for consideration by the councils in consultation with the industries concerned.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, is the Minister aware that that reply really is not very satisfactory and that, personally, I hope he may feel the same? Is he aware that in his reply to me on 2nd February he said, at col. 760, that his honourable friend—that is, Mr. Alex Fletcher—is in earnest in getting on with this important matter? Arising from that, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that I have very recently made what inquiries are possible among the people concerned and that I am informed that there has been no progress at all, that no discussions at all have taken place, and that one person finally said to me—and I think this would be unfortunate for the Government—that he thinks the Government would like it all just to fade away?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I recognise the noble Baroness's interest in this matter but, with respect to her, there has been a good deal of progress. The fact is that the responses of the nationalised industries' consumers' councils on these guidelines varied a good deal in content and structure between the five main councils, and the aim of the Department of Trade and Industry has been to produce concise drafts with a recognisable common framework. If I can be a little more forthcoming than I was in my original Answer, may I say that I hope the guidelines for the gas and the electricity consumers' councils to discuss with their industries are going to be sent to those councils literally within the next few days.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister. Is he aware that I believe that in company with me (if he does not mind my saying 1008 that) he wishes to make some progress in this matter? I should like to ask him whether he could let me have a copy of the letter which is to be sent. I have been disturbed at the lack of progress which is reported to me by the people concerned.
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, what is much more to the point is that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry is anxious to get on with this, and on his behalf I will give an undertaking that I will let the noble Baroness know when the communication is sent to those two nationalised industries. So far as the exact content of the papers is concerned, they are still drafts for discussion by the consumers' councils concerned with the two industries, and I think I must ask the department, and Mr. Alex Fletcher in particular, whether he would feel that it was right to show these particular documents in public at the present time. I feel sure that Mr. Fletcher will be as helpful as possible.
§ Baroness Elliot of HarwoodMy Lords, may I ask why there is this extraordinary delay? I had something to do with consumers' councils some years ago, and one was able to push the thing on quite hard. The department responded, and on the whole it worked very well. It seems now that the delays go on and on. Surely it is possible to make the thing work a bit faster.
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, it took a little time to get the replies back from the nationalised industries' consumers' councils. The last ones were received in October of last year. I repeat that what was found then was that the responses varied a good deal both in their content and in their structure. In order to try to achieve the objective of getting for the five main nationalised industries' consumers' councils guidelines which in the interests of consumers would be more or less in similar form for people to recognise, a good deal of redrafting has had to be done. The purpose of my answers today to the noble Baroness opposite is to give the assurance, which I have done, that in the next few days those guidelines will be going to the electricity and gas consumers' councils.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the House will appreciate the assurances he has been able to give the noble Baroness, Lady Burton? Will he please give us an assurance that he will inform the House as soon as possible as to the progress that is being made in these matters?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I do not think I can give an assurance that there will be a Government Statement on this matter. Noble Lords have had their fill of Government Statements in the past few weeks; but I feel sure that in the near future the noble Baroness, Lady Burton, will be putting down some form of further probing Question.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, in order to show the Minister how very reasonable I am, may I ask him whether he is aware that all that the people concerned are wanting at the moment—in particular, the electricity and gas consumers' councils, never mind the other three he has mentioned—is some discussion and some progress? They are not expecting a decision, but they would like a discussion.
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, in order to prove how reasonable and understanding I am on behalf of the Government, perhaps I may repeat the assurance that very shortly the basis for that discussion will be in the hands of those consumers' councils.