Pensioners' Earnings Rule (Hansard, 9 May 1984)

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, it is the Government's intention to abolish the earnings rule as soon as resources and competing priorities allow.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. I should like to ask him if he has had a chance to read the Hansard of yesterday's Committee proceedings on the Rates Bill? Did he see in column 845 his noble friend Lord Bellwin's moving reference to the sanctity of manifesto commitments? Is he aware that the Conservative manifestoes of 1979 and 1983 both had commitments to the abolition of the earnings rule? Will he be a bit more specific about when the Government intend to carry out these manifesto pledges?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, of course the Government will adhere to their manifesto commitments. Our commitment to the abolition of the earnings rule remains firm.

§ Baroness Jeger
My Lords, it is very difficult to square what the noble Lord has just said with page 27 of the Conservative manifesto of April 1979, which says quite clearly—

A noble Lord
Question!

§ Baroness Jeger
Does it not say quite clearly that they will phase out the earnings rule during the next Parliament? Now we are in the next Parliament but one and apparently the noble Lord still cannot fulfil that promise.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I really think the noble Baroness and her party are in no position to criticise. In 1977 they froze the limit at £35 when it was due to rise to £50. We raised the limit from £52 to £57 in November 1982, and again to £65 in November 1983. At a time of high unemployment and many competing demands for additional resources, we take the view that those over pension age in full-time work or with substantial part-time earnings could not be given priority over those less well placed. Nevertheless, as I have said, the earnings limit was increased from £45 a week in 1978 to £65 in 1983.

§ Lord Banks
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his party, when in opposition in 1979, just before they took office, felt so strongly that the earnings rule should be abolished then and there that they divided this House on the issue, temporarily defeating the more Thatcherite point of view adopted by the Labour Government, and explaining very carefully exactly how this abolition could be afforded?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I simply have to revert to what I said earlier in answer to the noble Lord and repeat that our commitment to abolish it in due course remains firm.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, will the Minister consider abolishing it in part? If the Government cannot abolish it straightaway they should reduce the age at which people can start earning. At least that would be cheaper and would be a beginning.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, certainly I do not propose to get drawn in the direction the noble Baroness suggests. There have been many ways in which the Government have vastly increased the benefit of pensions to individuals over the lifetime of the last Parliament. The retirement pension has increased by 74.6 per cent. compared with a movement in RPI of 68.8 per cent., and at a time of world recession and a further 600,000 pensioners that is by no means a small achievement.

§ Lord Alport
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that a manifesto of any party is not a commitment for that party to carry through its policies in the next Parliament but is an indication of the hopes the party has; and that subsequently, whether it is in regard to local government organisation or old age pensions, if those promises do not become practical they should not be proceeded with?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I stress to my noble friend our commitment to abolish the earnings rule in due course. That remains firm.

§ Lord Wells-Pestell
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that everyone on this side of the House has great sympathy with every Government Minister because of the way they are continually being let down by the Prime Minister?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that none of us on this side of the House feels in any way that we are being anything but supported by my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, can I bring the Minister back to the earnings rule? Why have his Government failed to keep that earnings rule increased in line with inflation?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, the fact is that there are various ways in which this could be done. I do not know how far I can go in elucidating what I have already said to the noble Lord. The fact is that if the earnings limit had increased fully in line with the movement of prices since November 1979 it would now stand at £74.80. But the November 1982increase of 14 per cent. in the limit helped to make up some of the ground which had been lost in the two years 1980 and 1981, when it was necessary to leave the limit unchanged as an economy measure.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, in view of the Minister's experience this afternoon in answering this Question, would he consider becoming redundant and applying for re-employment?

§ The Lord President of the Council (Viscount Whitelaw)
My Lords, as the person much more closely associated than any of my right honourable friends or my noble friends with all the manifestoes of the Conservative Party over many years, I want to say that I feel neither in the least let down nor in the least repentant. If I did, I should only look at the party opposite and feel very pleased indeed.