Food Prices (Hansard, 8 May 1984)

§ Lord Sandys
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government what has been the annual increase in food prices and in retail price index since 1977.

§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, between March 1977 and March 1984 the average annual rate of increase for the food component of the retail price index was 8.2 per cent.; that for the index as a whole was 10.1 per cent.

§ Lord Sandys
My Lords, may I thank my noble friend for that reply. Is it not the case that this is a most encouraging answer, and it reflects particularly well on British agriculture and home-produced food on a diminishing acreage?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Question. I think my Answer indeed reflects well on the agricultural industry of this country. Over the period 1977 to 1983—not quite the period my noble friend had asked for in his Question—self-sufficiency in all foods has increased in this country from 48 per cent. to 60 per cent., and in indigenous type foods the increase has been from 63 per cent. to 76 per cent.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, does not the Minister think that this calls for an improvement in the standard of living and the rate of wages of agricultural workers?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the wages of agricultural workers are decided by the Agricultural Wages Board.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, in order to complete the picture, can the noble Lord give the House the information as to how many thousands of millions of pounds have been paid out of taxpayers' pockets in support of the agricultural programme?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I do not think it is profitable to start trying to weigh the costs of the common agricultural policy—and they are considerable—with the benefits. But the benefits are there and I have enumerated just a few of them. In 794 addition, it might be of interest to the House that over the past six years our exports of foods from this country have increased in volume terms by 35 per cent. There are really enormous savings, both from the self-sufficiency and from the increase in exports points of view, in our balance of payments.

§ Lord Collison
My Lords, I thank the noble Minister for what he has already said, and have listened to his replies, particularly about the agricultural workers' wages. But would he not agree that this is a great success story in agriculture which could well set an example to the other industries? Would he not agree that the agricultural workers, together with the farmers, have played a magnificent part in achieving such a good record?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Collison, who, from his experience, knows far better than I that in terms of productivity and of industrial relations British agriculture has a very fine record over the years. Of course those who are to be thanked are all who work in the industry and not least those who are employed upon our farms and in our horticultural enterprises around the country.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, can my noble friend say how this rise in the retail index compares with the rise in the previous period of 1974 to 1979 of which I believe he has been given notice?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I think the answer to my noble friend's question is that from February 1974 to May 1979, if that is the information that my noble friend is after, retail food prices rose by 16.4 per cent. per annum. Since then the increase has been 7.9 per cent. per annum. I must be fair in giving those figures. There obviously was a very considerable readjustment in food prices when we entered the Community. On the other hand, as I am sure my noble friends on this side of the House will agree, we have a splendid Government at the moment which of course is keeping food prices down.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, if we were able to import New Zealand produce without quota or without levies, would that increase have been more or less?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I do not know because that is a hypothesis which is never likely to be realised.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, but is the noble Lord not aware that it would have been considerably less if we had been able to import New Zealand butter and New Zealand lamb without the levies and without the quotas?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, it would very likely mean a return to deficiency payments and guaranteed prices, and probably the end result would be all the worse.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, am I right in assuming that the answer which the noble Lord gave in his first Answer refers to the average consumer and does not therefore specifically refer to the budget of pensioners, who generally buy in small quantities and find that the cost of food is somewhat higher? Has he any figures which specially refer to that standard of living?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have figures which relate specifically to pensioners.

§ The Earl of Radnor
My Lords, will my noble friend agree that if this good performance is to continue it would be helpful for the agricultural industry to have a little more forewarning of the drastic changes in prices, quotas and so on, that it has suffered this year? Will he not agree that it is hard to maintain the efficiency that has I think been maintained so far when things happen as they have happened in the farming industry this year?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, my noble friend refers of course to dairying. I think that we are getting on to another question, however deeply felt may be one's views on the issues. So far as this Question is concerned, the effect of the price fixing of the common agricultural policy should I think exert some downward pressure on food prices. That is something that the whole House would welcome, I would have thought.

§ The Duke of Norfolk
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the New Zealand Government are making considerable progress in their trade with Japan and doing very well in the export of both lamb and butter?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I would not wish my noble friend the Duke of Norfolk to think that the replies which I felt I needed to give to the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, showed any unfriendliness towards New Zealand. It is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to see that the 18th Protocol is faithfully carried out by the Community and that the Dublin declaration of 1975 is adhered to. It is of course we in this country who take the New Zealand produce. We are ready and we are proud to do so. Having said that, I do not think—if I may say so to the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, arising from my noble friend's question—that we can unwind the clock and go back to the old system of deficiency payments and guaranteed prices, even if we wished from a national point of view, to take more food from New Zealand. We have to live with the world as it is. The world as it is means that we are taking what we feel we can from New Zealand with the agreement of our Community partners, which is not always easy to come by.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he is mistaken when he says that we are taking what we can? We are in fact taking what the Community says we can take.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, that is correct. We are taking what we can get agreement to take. That is the way that the Community works.