§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to maintain financial support for cancer research.
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, support of research on cancer by the public sector is mainly the responsibility of the Medical Research Council, which receives a grant-in-aid from the Department of Education and Science. I understand that in 1982–83 the council spent approximately £11.4 million on cancer research through research grants to universities, work in its own establishments and in the Institute of Cancer Research and the United Kingdom's subscription to the International Agency for Research on Cancer.
The council is facing the need to reduce the support given to some areas of its work in 1984–85 so as to enable new work of scientific promise to be funded and to accommodate inescapable calls on its funds which have arisen very recently. As an immediate measure it has invited all its unit directors to reduce expenditure on consumables in 1984–85 by an average of 16 per cent. I understand that a more considered strategy, aimed at remaining within cash limits, will be decided by the council by the late summer. The decision on the level of support for cancer research in 1985–86 will be taken in late 1984 or early 1985 when the size of the council's grant-in-aid for 1985–86 is known.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the Minister aware that I am indeed most grateful to him for that frank and comprehensive reply, so far as it goes? Is he further aware that the contribution made by the Government via the DHSS has resulted in a 25 per cent. cut in cancer research, and that there has been an increase in the cases of brain cancer in women who already had breast cancer? This could have been avoided if the research facilities had not suffered this cut. May I please give the Minister an example?
§ Lord MolloyIs he aware that the Hadley Atkins cancer research unit of New Cross Hospital has suffered a 25 per cent. cut by the North Southwark health authority, and that the director of that unit says that the cuts disrupt research programmes which have pioneered cures for breast cancer with the minimum amount of surgery? Does he agree that that is a matter which ought to go to the Cabinet to see whether there 720 is anything that can be done with the DHSS to stop this appalling behaviour over pending research into cures for cancer? Should it not be allowed to proceed without hindrance from the DHSS, and indeed with encouragement from that department?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, my understanding of the developments in cancer research is completely and utterly different from that of the noble Lord. In fact in 1984–85 the Medical Research Council's total grant-in-aid will be £117.2 million, which compares with £113.7 million in 1983–84. I think that that is just about level funding, so there is no cut.
I do not have details of what is happening in particular hospitals; but I can tell the noble Lord of one great success story, which is at the Clatterbridge Cancer Research Trust, where the MRC, the Imperial Cancer Research Fund, the Cancer Research Campaign and two Liverpool-based charities—the Cancer and Polio Research Fund and the Clatter-bridge Cancer Research Trust—have jointly agreed to fund a major new initiative in the radiation treatment of cancers. This will involve installing a cyclotron at Clatterbridge Hospital in the Wirral for clinical investigations in the treatment of cancer by irradiation with high energy neutrons. The project began in 1981, and the building is almost complete. It is hoped that the programme will be fully operational in 1985.
There are so many and various bodies contributing to cancer research that it is very difficult to say that one is contributing more or less than another. Biomedical research is carried out by the universities and medical schools using the funds provided for teaching and research through the University Grants Committee. That is another way in which the Government provide funds. While details are not available, some of this research is basic work related to cancer treatment. The research programme of the DHSS includes provision for research on cancer-related services. I understand that there are no plans whatsoever to reduce expenditure in that field. I must say that the facts I have received are completely contrary to those which the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, has given.
§ Lord EnnalsMy Lords, is the noble Earl denying that his Government have announced a cut of £4 million in their grant to the Medical Research Council? Is he aware that long answers such as he has given cannot be any justification whatsoever for a cut in research? Will he say whether there has ever been in any year under any Government a reduction in grant to the Medical Research Council? With the present alarming increase in cancer cases, will the Government think again about their responsibilities in that field? Is this not a very good morning for them to start rethinking their policy?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, this noble Lord gives long answers when he is asked long questions. To give a short answer in reply to the noble Lord, I can only repeat that in 1984–85 the council's total grant-in-aid will be £117.2 million compared with £113.7 million in 1983–84. That, in my figures, is £4 million more and not £4 million less.
§ Baroness Macleod of BorveMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that the national organisation of which I happen to be national chairman—the Leagues of Hospital Friends—is an entirely voluntary organisation, and during each year it has collected £12 million to £13 million, a great deal of which is spent on lasers and scanners to help the DHSS? I hope the Minister will take that on board. I know that the Secretary of State knows the work that is done, but this is entirely voluntary and is helping cancer patients.
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend, Lady Macleod, for drawing our attention to the work that is done. The two largest charities in this field are the Cancer Research Campaign and the Imperial Cancer Research Fund, each of which spend approximately £20 million annually. I know that the Government are most grateful to all those many people who give their time to these excellent charities and others concerned with cancer.
Lord WinstanleyMy Lords, in the light of what the noble Lord has said to the House, is it not rather odd that the members of the Medical Research Council should be under the impression that the funds have been reduced by nearly £4 million? In the light of what the noble Earl has said, would he draw his recent remarks to the attention of the members of the Medical Research Council so that they can understand the position?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, I do not know whether the members of the Medical Research Council are more or less capable of doing their sums than I am. But of course I hope that they will see this Question. I received a mild ticking off from the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, for giving too long an answer, so perhaps I could explain that there has been trouble this year with the Medical Research Council because it is having to accommodate within its cash limits some unavoidable increases in expenditure. These involve such items as an actuarial increase in the employer's superannuation contribution and an increase arising from the formula for calculating subscriptions to international bodies, such as the European Molecular Biology Laboratory.
The council therefore faces a drop in its disposable income, which it estimates might be between £1.5 million and £2 million. This is entirely an inescapable, very unfortunate one-off exercise. Because the pension funds were not large enough, and also because of exchange rate difficulties, and the ways that the international bodies went about regulating member states' contributions, this has resulted in a shortfall. Therefore there have to be some cuts. But the overall grant, as I have said, went up to £117 million. I think this is where there must be a misunderstanding.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the perturbation which is felt right through the medical profession is precisely for some of the reasons he has given this morning? I wonder whether he will be good enough to confer with the Secretary of State for the Department of Health and Social Security with 722 particular reference to the Hadley Atkins Unit, which is the unit that the entire profession is talking about? Is he aware that this unit receives £750,000 from the Imperial Cancer Research Fund? Almost all that the DHSS has to provide is the hotel charges for the patients. It is the 36 beds that the DHSS is withdrawing that is causing the bitterness with regard to the Hadley Atkins Research Unit, which has done so much valuable research into breast cancer.
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, as I say, I have no details on this particular unit; but I shall certainly draw my right honourable friend's attention to what the noble Lord has said.
§ Lord EnnalsMy Lords, will the noble Lord accept that I was not wishing to criticise him for the length of his reply if he had in fact been giving good news, but it seemed to me that the length of his reply was to conceal very bad news. Can he justify the fact that the Medical Research Council has fewer funds at its disposal for research during this coming year than would have otherwise been the case?
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, there are times in life when things go wrong, and things have gone wrong with the MRC.
§ Lord StrabolgiYou can say that again!
§ The Earl of SwintonMy Lords, yes; but as I have explained in some detail, I think it is unfortunate that these things have happened. However, I see no reason why they should happen again in future years. It is up to the MRC how they spend their money and they are taking short term measures regarding funding. This is one of the cases where they were not to blame; they did not know these things were going to happen. They are at the moment a little short of cash but I think that, with luck, the situation will soon be rectified.