The "General Belgrano" (Hansard, 1 May 1984)

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, as has been made clear on many occasions, we had received no news of the Peruvian peace proposals at the time that the "Belgrano" was sunk. It follows that the Government can have had no knowledge of the Argentine junta's consideration of them.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that according to ex-Secretary of State Haig (and I quote): Nevertheless, he"— that is, President Belaunde— gained acceptance in principle from both parties". The second quotation is as follows: While the junta was in the act of considering it, the submarine HMS 'Conqueror' sank the Argentinian cruiser 'General Belgrano' outside the blockade zone". The third quotation is: The Argentines, reacting angrily to the bad news, rejected the new peace proposal". Although I admit that General Haig's dates are confused—

Noble Lords
Oh!

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
Yes, the dates are confused, my Lords, but the days are not. This was a report in his memoirs as to what happened on the Sunday—that is, on the morning of 2nd May—when he further said that the agreement was down to words. At that moment our Foreign Secretary of the time, Francis Pym—

Noble Lords
Question!

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
—was in Washington. Why did he not know of these negotiations between General Haig and President Belaunde? And if he did know, why did he not relay them to Chequers?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, in the first place, I do not answer for Mr. Haig. As to the other points which the noble Lord has made, may I make it quite clear that it was the Peruvian Foreign Minister, Dr. Javier Arias Stella, who first told the British Ambassador in Lima what the Peruvians had in mind? This conversation took place four and a half hours after the "General Belgrano" had been sunk, unbeknown to either of them. The ambassador immediately reported by telegram to London what the Foreign Minister had told him of the Peruvian ideas, and there was no question of Mr. Wallace accepting them in principle.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, does my noble friend recall that in the "Panorama" programme of 16th April a senior Argentine admiral, when asked if he would have taken this action, said, "If I had been responsible for the British forces and their safety, I should certainly have taken exactly the same action"?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his intervention. I might add that Rear-Admiral Lombardo also made it clear in the "Panorama" programme that the "General Belgrano" was involved in a pincer movement with orders to attack British ships and that when he ordered it to withdraw he ordered it to withdraw to its former position, not to its home port. All these statements are entirely consistent with the British Government's account of the circumstances.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, is the noble Baroness as astonished as I am that General Haig should be called in evidence by the noble Lord when General Haig's book shows that the British Prime Minister was always willing to seek compromises at a time when the junta was not? Is the noble Baroness aware that General Haig also reports that the decisions of the junta had to be ratified by local commanders down to corps level? In that case how could negotiations be carried on when decisions, apparently agreed by the junta, had then to be ratified in that way? Finally, is the noble Baroness as puzzled as I am that the authors of the book The Sinking of the Belgrano, upon which the noble Lord has so often relied for his information, appear to be those who would sooner have seen our ships, our seamen, our sailors and our troops at the bottom of the sea rather than that it could have been said that we had failed to obtain a settlement at the 13th hour?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am much obliged for the question of the noble Lord, Lord Annan, and I agree entirely with what he has said.

§ Viscount Hanworth
My Lords, does not the noble Baroness agree that in the circumstances there really is no point in pursuing this matter, and that that in fact it may be very harmful to do so?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I believe that I detect a feeling in the House that your Lordships have had quite enough of questions about the sinking of the "General Belgrano".

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, if the noble Baroness has seen the "Panorama" programme to which her own Back-Benchers have referred, is she aware that the Peruvian Foreign Minister told the interviewer on that programme that the British Ambassador in Lima, Charles Wallace, was kept informed by telephone at every step of the negotiations?
Is the noble Baroness further aware that on the same programme the then Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, Cecil Parkinson, said that the War Cabinet was aware of the negotiations, and in particular those of President Belaunde, at the time that they were considering at Chequers the decision on the "General Belgrano"? In this case, is the noble Baroness saying that the Secretary of State for the United States, the 460 British Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, and the Foreign Minister of Peru were all lying, or mistaken? Or is it not the case that the War Cabinet and the Prime Minister knew of those negotiations at the time that the decision was taken to sink the "General Belgrano"?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I do not speak for Mr. Haig, and I do not wish to comment further on his book. The facts of the situation are as I have described them this afternoon in my Answer to the original Question from the noble Lord, Lord Hatch of Lusby—and the question has been answered on many occasions before.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords—

Noble Lords
No!

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, as the noble Baroness has already answered a question about the "Panorama" programme from one of her own Back-Benchers, will she be so courteous as to answer my question about the same programme?

§ Lord Derwent
My Lords, is not the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, abusing the privilege of this House by asking the same question time after time, even though he receives the same answer?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I have answered the questions which have arisen from the "Panorama" programme; and the specific question asked by my noble friend Lord Orr-Ewing—and I have indicated the timing of our knowledge of the Peruvian peace proposals.