HL Deb 28 March 1984 vol 450 cc230-2

2. 52 p.m.

Lord Fanshawe of Richmond

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make renewed representations to the Government of the Soviet Union with a view to obtaining the immediate release of Rudolf Hess, who has now been imprisoned for 43 years.

Baroness Young

My Lords, we are always ready to consider, in consultation with our French and American allies, steps that could lead to agreement between the four powers on Hess's release; we are in touch with our allies at the present time.

Lord Fanshawe of Richmond

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that most civilised people view with horror the medieval type of imprisonment which this man has endured for 43 years? Will she give an assurance that she will consult her right honourable friend with a view to obtaining agreement between our American and French allies in making an approach forthwith to the Soviet Union so that a review can be taken of this barbaric sentence which has lasted so long?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I think the whole House will sympathise with the first part of my noble friend's supplementary question about the circumstances now surrounding Hess. However, as he will be aware, all matters relating to the imprisonment of Hess are subject to agreement by the four powers. As I think I indicated in my original Answer, we are in consultation with our allies.

Lord Fanshawe of Richmond

My Lords, would my noble friend press the allies to join with us in a particular approach in view of the new leadership which has just taken over in the Soviet Union?

Baroness Young

My Lords, as I have indicated, this is a matter of course for the four powers under the four power agreement on Berlin and we are in consultation with our allies about this matter.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, when we first made the agreement with the Soviet Union on the detention of Mr. Hess, was there no provision in that agreement for varying or revoking it? If not, what would be the consequences if the United Kingdom and the other Western powers unilaterally denounced the agreement and liberated Mr. Hess by themselves without the consent of the Soviet Union?

Baroness Young

My Lords, my understanding of the position is that unilateral action by the British Government, or by the three Western powers acting in concert, would constitute a violation of a binding international agreement. That would be a grave step in any circumstances. In Berlin, where the Western position largely depends on a complex of four-power agreements a deliberate breach of one agreement would put at risk other more fundamental agreements on which the security of West Berlin is based. We must not, after all, forget our responsibility to the two million inhabitants of West Berlin.

Earl Cathcart

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that 14 years ago, and for a period of three years when I was the British Commandant in Berlin, it was my duty to visit prisoner Hess regularly in his cell and that therefore I can confirm that the conditions of the imprisonment of this old man are both harsh and severe? Would the Minister agree that even if he were to be released there would still be need to protect him from the world media and other sensation seekers? Nevertheless, in view of the 43 years that he has served in prison, his age—which is 90—and his frail health, but above all because he has served the last 18 years in solitary confinement—a condition of imprisonment to which he was never sentenced—does my noble friend agree that Her Majesty's Government should now begin urgent discussions with the other three powers to make the conditions of his imprisonment at least kinder and more civilised, and preferably absolutely kinder in every degree than they are now?

Noble Lords

Hear, Hear!

Baroness Young

My Lords, I take the point made by my noble friend on this matter. I can confirm that the Western prison governors are in continual contact with Hess about his personal requirements, including visiting hours, and that they do make representations to the Russians from time to time. In recent years these have resulted in the installation of colour television, the erection of a summer house in the garden, and work has recently been completed on the installation of a lift to enable Hess to reach the garden more easily.

The Earl of Selkirk

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the predominant reason why the Russians retain Hess is in order to have a periodic visit, for many purposes, to West Berlin?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the Russians base their objection to the release of Hess on the claim that Soviet public opinion would not understand the release of a man who, because of his involvement from 1933 to 1941, must share responsibility for the events that followed.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there is widespread agreement in the House this afternoon; as is obvious from the question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Fanshawe, and what was said by the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, a few moments ago? That being so, could she tell us when this matter was last put by the British Government to the Soviet Ambassador in London or to the Soviet Government in Moscow and when this matter was last discussed between the British Government and our French and American allies.

Baroness Young

My Lords, my right honourable friend the then Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs raised the matter with the Soviet Ambassador in June 1982. There has been no formal response to that. On the second part of the noble Lord's Question, the answer is, in September 1979, when, for the United Kingdom, my noble friend Lord Carrington wrote to Mr. Gromyko.

Baroness Airey of Abingdon

My Lords, may I ask the Minister how often Hess is allowed to see his near relations?

Baroness Young

My Lords, he has two 30-minute visits or one 60-minute visit per month. He is visited regularly by members of his family, including his son, his wife and his sister. As I indicated in an answer to an earlier supplementary question, it is Western policy to try to improve conditions at Spandau.

Earl Cathcart

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that it is still the condition that he may not touch either his wife or his son when they visit him, that they are kept at a considerable distance and the interviews between them are heavily monitored by the guards?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I am afraid I do not have that information to hand in that much detail but I can. in fact, confirm that his daughter-in-law is allowed to visit and has done so on several occasions.