Glorious Revolution: Tercentenary (Hansard, 27 March 1984)

§ Lord Henderson of Brompton
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Lord President of the Council (Viscount Whitelaw)
My Lords, I am not aware of any general wish for such a celebration, but the Government would be prepared to consider this matter if there were evidence of widespread interest in both Houses.

§ Lord Henderson of Brompton
My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that non-committal reply. I hope he is not put off by the fact that the Tories were virtually excluded from office for nearly a hundred years after the Glorious Revolution. May I ask the noble Viscount whether he does not agree that the significance of the year 1688 is that the modern parliamentary system dates from the Glorious Revolution, whereby the Government depend upon a majority in the House of Commons for their existence, and is this not worthy of celebration? Further, is it not worthy of celebration that we have had peaceful changes in administration for nearly 300 years? Would it not be particularly suitable to celebrate that fact in what might well be an election year?

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, I was not quite sure what the noble Lord, with his unrivalled knowledge of this House, and indeed of Parliament, was going to produce for me. On his first point, no, I do not think I would be deterred by that fact, particularly since it happened such a long time ago. On the second point, I think it is really a matter for Parliament. I agree with the noble Lord that this is a parliamentary anniversary, and that is why my Answer—that it is for both Houses of Parliament to decide to put it forward, and not the Government—is, I think, in the circumstances, a proper one. On whether it would coincide with a general election, and whether we made sure that there was a peaceful transition from one Government to another, I would agree with the noble Lord that our system of government, and in fact the system of both Houses of Parliament—and I say that quite advisedly—is something of which this country has every reason to be proud.

§ Lord Blake
My Lords, would the noble Viscount not agree that in fact there is no danger of this 130 celebration coinciding with a general election? A general election cannot take place later than June 1988, and the Glorious Revolution occurred in the November or December of 1688.

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, the moment my noble friend Lord Blake rose I knew he was going to teach me something, and there is a great deal of opportunity for him to do so. Had I looked at the excellent brief I have been given I would have known that fact for myself; but I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for having pointed it out to me.

§ Lord Ross of Marnock
My Lords, would the noble Viscount not agree that in 1688 there were two Parliaments, and there was probably a little more enthusiasm for one than for the other?

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, I think I shall leave the noble Lord to speak for himself on that matter.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, would the noble Viscount not agree that any celebration should take place only if it can be used to advance towards reconciliation and understanding? Unless that is done it can be counter-productive.

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, perhaps I should say in answer to the noble Lord that if any such celebration did come from the views of both Houses of Parliament, then I do not doubt that that spirit of reconciliation and understanding would certainly be there.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, may I strongly support my noble friend for a very simple reason, in that I exist? May I give this personal explanation of my interest in this matter: that my five greats grandfather was busy being hanged as an Orange supporter when William was declared to be landing, and that this saved his life and my existence.

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, if we were to celebrate the existence of the noble Viscount, I am sure that is something that this House would surely wish to do.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, would my noble friend the Leader of the House not agree that if we are to take seriously the proposition of the noble Lord, Lord Henderson, that it is a matter for celebrating the coming of parliamentary government, the correct year for celebration would be in 1689 and not 1688, when Parliament itself was in abeyance?

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, I was going to come to the moment when I had to admit that I did get a degree in history at one stage, but when I begin to hear the noble Lord, Lord Blake, and the noble Lord, Lord Beloff, I recognise that my degree in history is not of the standing of theirs. Curiously enough, I concentrated at that time on the French Revolution, of which I remember absolutely nothing at all today.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, if 1688 is to be celebrated, will it be borne in mind that a matter worthy of celebration was the recovery of the Great 131 Seal from the River Thames by the fishermen of Lambeth? It had been cast there by James II through, I regret to say, the last Welsh-speaking Lord Chancellor, Judge Jeffreys.

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, I can only say that I am very grateful for the fact that the noble and learned Lord was speaking in English. Had he been speaking as the last Welsh-speaking Lord Chancellor, I certainly would not have understood what he was saying. As regards the celebration of the recovery of the Great Seal, again I think that would be a matter for Parliament, and it might very well be worthwhile.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, would the noble Viscount set his face and harden his heart against celebrating the driving out of the lawful monarch by religious bigotry?

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, this shows the wisdom of my suggestion, that if we are to proceed in this matter it should be by the decision of both Houses of Parliament.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, if we are to celebrate any date, ought it not to be 5th November?

§ Viscount Whitelaw
My Lords, perhaps it would be correct for me to say, as I am always encouraging my colleagues to do, that that is another question.