HL Deb 26 March 1984 vol 450 cc6-9

2.52 p.m.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are holding, or intend to hold, negotiations with the Argentine Government on the Falkland Islands with a view to reducing the cost to the United Kingdom of the existing situation.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)

My Lords, we shall continue to meet the costs necessary to fulfil our commitments to the islanders. At the same time we are seeking to improve our bilateral relations with Argentina and to re-establish confidence. We will not discuss sovereignty over the Falklands.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, although I welcome the Answer of the noble Baroness, she must be aware that it will be received with some disappointment by noble Members of this House and by a wider audience outside. Bearing in mind that the cost to each individual income taxpayer in this country is £40 per year to support the Fortress Falklands policy of the present Government, does not the noble Baroness agree that it is time for a further urgent initiative to be taken with the Argentine government in order to get direct talks moving so as to reduce this colossal burden?

Baroness Young

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, the Prime Minister sent a message to President Alfonsin on the occasion of his inauguration on 10th December which was intended to pave the way for the development of better bilateral relations. We followed this up on 26th January by putting some specific ideas to the Argentinians through the Swiss protecting power. We have now received a substantial response from the Argentine government which we are still considering.

Lord Gladwyn

My Lords, would the Government agree that, if there are to be discussions with a very well disposed Argentinian government, they are not likely to make much progress—if they take place at all—unless the Government admit, without committing themselves on the question of sovereignty, that, in the long run and in the end, such discussions would not exclude the discussion of the political future of the Falkland Islands?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the Government have made their position quite clear on the question of the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.

The Earl of Lauderdale

My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that there will be no question of compromising the Falkland Islanders' rights to self-determination? Is it not time that Argentina declared peace on a day when we in this House have been discussing peace studies?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his intervention. On his second point, it would be helpful if President Alfonsin could now formally declare a definitive cessation of hostilities and renounce the future use of force.

Lord Shackleton

My Lords, while accepting that the prospect of meaningful discussions on sovereignty will not take place for the time being and into the distant future and that the majority of the heavy expenditure has already been committed and that it will be relatively small in two years' time, would the noble Baroness consider the possibility of conversations with regard to the conservation of the marine resources? Is she aware that there is a very large number of ships operating from different countries in the vicinity of the Falkland Islands and South Georgia and that it is vital to introduce a measure of conservation? Might this not be equally in the interests of Argentina and of the Falkland Islands? As the noble Baroness knows, very good relationships exist between the British Antarctic Survey, the signatories of the Antarctic Treaty and Argentine scientists.

Baroness Young

My Lords, as I believe the House and the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, are aware, the possibility and the implications of declaring an exclusive fisheries limit are under careful consideration. However, the fact that the matter is still being considered reflects the complexity of the issue. But I have noted the point which the noble Lord has made.

Lord Monson

My Lords, can the noble Baroness say what the Government are doing to give maximum publicity, at home as well as abroad, to Britain's overwhelming cultural, ethnic, geographical, his-torical, legal and, above all. moral case over the Falkland Islands?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the Government have repeatedly made plain their view on Britain's sovereignty over the Falkland Islands.

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, does the noble Baroness recognise that the fact that she has been to the Falkland Islands and has had the benefit of meeting people there and seeing the position for herself has been generally welcomed? Does the noble Baroness also recognise that the Fortress Falklands policy, which might have been relevant for a short period, is no longer justifiable because the future of the Falkland Islands depends upon their relationship with Argentina, with Latin America and with other countries, and that it also depends upon communications and trade? Can the noble Baroness say what proposals have been received from President Alfonsin, what response the Government have made and whether the Government will initiate talks with the widest possible agenda in order to make progress?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bishopston, for his remarks about my visit to the Falkland Islands, which was most valuable and interesting. On his second point, I should make it clear that we need to be fully satisfied that Argentina renounces the future use of force. We have noted the statements by the Argentine government that they intend to pursue their claim by peaceful means. At no stage have the Government accepted the term "Fortress Falklands". It has been coined by others and has very little meaning. Turning to the question of the diplomatic initiatives, I indicated in response to the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Dean of Beswick. that we have now received a response from the Argentine government to our initial proposals through the mediation of the protecting power. We are considering that response, but we believe that it is in the best interests of both ourselves and the Argentine government for the details to be kept confidential for the time being.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, bearing in mind the noble Baroness's assurance about the response of the Argentine government, is she aware that an Early Day Motion, sponsored by Back-Bench supporters of the Government, is on the Order Paper in another place, urging support for the type of action that I have suggested? Is the noble Baroness aware also that in the foreign affairs debate which was held recently in another place, prominent Back-Benchers of her own party suggested the course of action which I put to her in my Question? May I therefore ask the noble Baroness whether, in view of the financial implications, the Government's response to the Argentine government's response will be urgent?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I am, of course, aware of the Early Day Motion to which the noble Lord has referred and I have studied the debate on foreign affairs which took place in another place last week. I should like to make it plain that Her Majesty's Government wish to have more normal bilateral relations with Argentina. I have already described the proposals that we have made. At the same time I should like to make it clear that it remains our policy to stand firmly by our commitments to the Falkland Islanders while seeking more normal bilateral relations with Argentina.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Shackleton mentioned one very important aspect of the economic future of the Falkland Islands; namely, the development of marine resources. May I ask the noble Baroness whether she is entirely satisfied that another aspect—namely, land reform—is developing satisfactorily?

Baroness Young

My Lords, that question is really rather wide of the original Question on the Order Paper. If the noble Lord cares to put down a Question on that subject, I will be happy to answer it.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, would it be unkind to say that it is not only rather wide but also rather more difficult?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I did not quite hear the end of the noble Lord's question; but may I say that it is the Government's view that there should be a gradual acquisition by the islanders of their farms. I believe the figures will substantiate that that is taking place.