School Meals Service (Hansard, 7 March 1984)

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, it is a matter for individual local education authorities to determine whether they wish to provide a paid school meals service. The Government could only intervene if they were failing to comply with the duty placed upon them by Section 22 of the Education Act 1980 to provide free of charge in the middle of the day what they consider "requisite" for pupils whose parents receive supplementary benefit or family income supplement. They must also provide without charge facilities for people to consume their own food.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, may I thank the noble Earl for that Answer. But does he not agree that last night's decision by Hertfordshire County Council may make the new conditions of service imposed on women working in the school meals service impossible for them to accept and will thereby result in the closure of that service? Would the noble Earl not further agree that Hereford and Worcester County Council has already closed its service? Does the Minister not regret the divisive effect that this will have on children who have free meals, as being the only ones receiving them? If this trend continues and further local authorities close their services, will the Government not seek to take some action?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I said originally that this is a matter for local education authorities. As far as Hertfordshire is concerned, I understand that yesterday they decided to retain their school meals service and to make the necessary savings by changing the conditions of staff by reducing holiday pay. The staff have until 6th April to decide whether to accept the authority's proposal. Savings will also be made by reducing pupils' entitlement to free school meals to the statutory minimum of receipt of supplementary benefit or family income supplement by the parents.
To date, only three local education authorities have abolished paid meals, and then only in primary schools. I understand that Hereford and Worcester—an authority that has already abolished the service to primary schools—is considering ending the service to secondary schools. We know of no other authority that is considering such action, but this is for local education authorities themselves to determine.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the Government feel no concern about the quality of the meals which may be given to children in these circumstances, when curtailment of the service is talked of so often? Is there any monitoring? What about the nutritional element? Do the department take no interest in the sort of food these children are eating?

§ The Earl of Swinton
Yes, my Lords, they do. A survey of the dietary intake of schoolchildren has been commissioned by the Department of Health and Social Security. The result should be available later this year, so we shall see.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords, are the Government not concerned that the cash inducements which local authorities are now offering the women working in kitchens are more or less bribes? The Government are trying to get these women to accept 267 lower standards of pay and poorer conditions of service, and this is not good enough. Are the Government not concerned that all this means is that if the women do not accept those conditions, they will be forced to lose their jobs?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, that Question was more a statement of the personal view held by the noble Baroness, Lady Fisher of Rednal, and does not require my comments upon it.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords—

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, is not this an appalling state of affairs? At a time when so many women have to go to work to pay off mortgages and to pay for their electricity and gas, and so on, is it not appalling that this Government are allowing local authorities to stop their school meals? Is this not quite outrageous?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, if the Government were to act, then it might be said that we were taking away the right of local authorities to exercise their discretion. Noble Lords opposite cannot have it both ways.

§ Lord Hale
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that it is just 60 years since Leicestershire County Council, faced with a surplus of dairy milk in the county, introduced a daily allowance of one-third of a pint of milk a day for the children in its schools, living under a Tory Government? Is he aware also that the council found to its surprise that by the following year the children showed a notable improvement in their health?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I was not aware that this is the 60th anniversary of that event; but I believe that conditions were slightly different so far as children's health was concerned 60 years ago.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the general view in local authorities, among all political parties, is that no Government since 1888 have taken more freedom from local authorities than have the present one?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, were we to take away the freedom from local authorities to do what they like with their school meals services, we should be open to further accusations.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, will my noble friend take into account the improvement in health which came along with free school meals, and will he inquire as to the number of children who are sent to school after a totally inadequate breakfast, which I believe is quite a large number?

§ The Earl of Swinton
My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have any figures about the number of children who arrive at school without having had breakfast. I have figures for children who are taking free school meals, if that is of interest to my noble friend, but I know nothing about their arrangements for breakfast.